(;FF[4]
CA[UTF-8]
GM[1]
DT[2018-01-13]
PC[OGS: https://online-go.com/game/11261807]
GN[Friendly Match]
PB[walken!]
PW[elx]
BR[11k]
WR[4k]
TM[2400]OT[5x40 byo-yomi]
RE[B+11.5]
SZ[9]
KM[5.5]
RU[Japanese]
C[walken!: hi
elx: hello
]
;B[fd]
C[walken!: hi
elx: hello
]
(;W[cf]
(;B[dd]
(;W[ff]
(;B[ge]
(;W[gf]
(;B[hf]
C[walken!: never played 9x9 with such time controls.
]
(;W[hg]
(;B[hd]
C[elx: It's like unlimited time really except that you can't walk away for two hours 
]
(;W[cd]
(;B[cc]
(;W[bc]
(;B[bb]
(;W[cb]
(;B[dc]
C[walken!: this is not going to end well :)
]
(;W[be]
C[elx: To whom?
elx: Well, my b6 was vulnerable to double atari but I have noticed it too late
]
(;B[ef]
(;W[ee]
C[elx: f5 leads to e3 and cut is removed
]
(;B[de]
(;W[df]
C[elx: unexpected
]
(;B[eg]
(;W[fh]
C[elx: yeah, that's getting bad
elx: f5 and I'm screwed
elx: Actually this was a wrong turn, my right seems dead anyways
]
(;B[hh]
C[elx: I should probably give it up and try to stay with right half
]
(;W[ed]
(;B[ec]
(;W[db]
(;B[fe]
(;W[dh]
C[elx: maybe I can connect by lower line and save ?
]
(;B[eh]
(;W[dg]
(;B[gg]
(;W[fg]
(;B[gh]
(;W[ei]
(;B[fi]
(;W[eb]
(;B[fb]
(;W[fa]
C[elx: endgame. 
]
(;B[ea]
C[elx: is it that hard? I'm lazy to calculate that stuff, but my week pints
]
(;W[ba]
C[elx: probably d9 was better
elx: My weak points are d1, c5, and that upper thing
]
(;B[ab]
C[elx: Is he hoping for A9 C9 ?
elx: d1 is worse so I cover it first
]
(;W[di]
C[elx: Wait, it was not worse
]
(;B[ga]
(;W[ac]
(;B[da]
(;W[aa]
(;B[ce]
C[elx: Two points of failure,  C5 ad C9, I take one he takes other and game ends
]
(;W[bd]
(;B[bb]
(;W[ab]
(;B[fa]
(;W[ca]
(;B[]
C[elx: And what was that exchange for
]
(;W[]
C[walken!: yay
walken!: thanks for the game
walken!: oh nice, you have a malcom log
walken!: malkovich
walken!: I'm going through it
walken!: at move 30 Ithought you'd play e1
walken!: I can probablystill take some of your right side though
elx: I was thinking about e1, but resulting shape would be vulnerable
elx: I should have started to save the left side earlier
walken!: probably yes
walken!: when you did play e1 there wasn't a reason for it anymore
walken!: at move 14 I thought you'd take a lot of my upper side
walken!: I hadn't prepared for that
walken!: so at that point I thought, I'm behind, I have to go grab something else.
walken!: maybe move 23 at e2 ?
walken!: or g3 ?
elx: [object Object\]
walken!: yes
walken!: I think move 24 needed to defend your lower side
elx: [object Object\]
walken!: [object Object\]
walken!: and then try to connect to your left side
walken!: my black divider needs two moves to connect to my upper stones so that could give you enough time to connect under
elx: It could be cut off with F5
elx: assuming both white groups live or I win semeai
walken!: yes
walken!: I'd have to play f5 to connect my divider, and this probably lets you hane back on the other side of my divider
walken!: or if I don't connect, you can probably kill my divider before I kill your right group
walken!: I think that's the main turning point of the game
walken!: after that it looks like little points
walken!: and yes sometimes I try things that don't work (I did towards teh end of the game)
walken!: as long as I'm sure enough you have to respond to it
elx: Yeah, hoping that I would not be able to respond correctly
walken!: you had a note about playing d9 at move 39 - I think this would have been worse
walken!: err 40
walken!: [object Object\]
elx: [object Object\]
elx: no, im not that stupid
elx: How about last variation? Does it look realistic? It's 11.5 points still  though
walken!: yes, seems reasonable
walken!: but still, small points after the lower right side thing
walken!: anyway. thanks for the game :)
elx: tytoo
walken!: wow, is it your first day here ?
elx: What do you mean?
walken!: no, I misread your profile, still just a few days though
walken!: nice, welcome :)
elx: You stil lmisread it :P
walken!: :)
walken!: your strength graph starts on wednesday this week
walken!: but your history goes further
walken!: weird
walken!: anyway, doesn't matter
elx: Yeah
elx: [object Object\]
elx: Right, so my failure was that I was too greedy and wanted to kill that cutting stone instead of letting it be and connecting underneath
elx: yeah, right group died after black extended
elx: thx
elx: About 37, do you think f9 or e9 better?
elx: for white
elx: or maybe even c5
elx: Is there a 3 point move?
elx: I try to max my score out even in yose. Even if it doesn't decide it I still try to win by more point or lose by less points
elx: A good yose move can turn a loss to win
elx: you can see that in my game vs Eric on 13 board
elx: Yeah. I have been worried about that stone for a reason. though walken didn't use that opportunity  
walken!: I was looking at it
walken!: maybe not with the right priority
walken!: this went away after you played b9 which I actually hadn't expected
elx: Also you missed two sente moves d1 and c5
walken!: I looked at c5 for a while, I wasn't sure though as I thought it'd help him fix his shape
walken!: i.e. it give him a free b6 :)
elx: B9 unexpected?
elx: After e9 I have seen you playing c8 and me losing 3 stones
walken!: b9 was the right answer when you played it, but I hadn't seen it.
elx: I did see the problem but if I played B9 before expanding from C8, then I would have wasted a move and walken would have noticed that my invasion is serious and stopped it too early
elx: I was hoping that he would let me expand white group more if it did seem more vulnerable
walken!: no, I was worried about it
elx: But then you can never win if you are plaing against a handicap
elx: if you know opponent has a relatively low rank then it makes sense to play some moves which do not generally work if all other moves are really small
elx: Such as invasion in large moyos
elx: Anyway, if you have played to the end and you see some opportunities to say attack some ajis, even if they are defensible it makes sense to try right?
elx: last few moves of https://online-go.com/game/11242972
elx: as far as I see it was mistake of white 
elx: If we are using japanese system then playing in your territory reduces your score, so you have to really think hard whenever you need additional moves to cover aji in advance or not
elx: So it's not always easy to decide when you can allow opponent to play or you have to cover up
walken!: area and territorry scoring are actually very similar if both players play the same number of stones
walken!: the differences only show up when one player passes (unless the rule set makes him give a passing stone, like in AGA)
walken!: and some situations with seki (I dont understand the details much, doesn't matter at our level)
walken!: so trying things that don't work in the opponent's territory turns out free as long as the opponent has to respond
elx: There are also Ing SST, Korean and NZ rules available for selection
elx: But how do you know when you have to respond or not, unless it's an atari?
walken!: and the cost of playing in your territorry is that you didn't get to play elsewhere, but that's it.
walken!: things like move 49 in this game. not likely to work but you have to answer it so it's free.
walken!: yes. no difference. it's easiest to see if you think in terms of area scoring and then remember that they work out the same.
walken!: flopsy, can I ask you to look at one of my games ?
walken!: the final position in https://online-go.com/game/11261561
walken!: I barely won
walken!: but reviewing the game afterwards, I wonder if the upper left was supposed to be a seki
walken!: [object Object\]
walken!: [object Object\]
walken!: [object Object\]
Flopsy: you seemed to be asking how to save e5
Flopsy: [object Object\]
Flopsy: yes, it was a bit more risky
Flopsy: and then the cutting stones connected anyway, after having split your groups
Flopsy: then you had eyespace problems
Flopsy: that's part of why local tactics is so important
Flopsy: who connects to whom is very crucial to group health
Flopsy: good local tacts helps to make healthy groups with reasonably efficient moves
Flopsy: and of course, to spoil the health of opposing groups, when they have defects
Flopsy: so yeah, what I expect to see is a game of connection, in the beginner ranks
Flopsy: then recognition of the basic dead shapes
Flopsy: yeah, you're deep in yose here
Flopsy: it doesn't matter so much whether you're playing a 2 point move when there's still a 3 point move on the board
Flopsy: beginner games will be decided by other things, and have larger margins
Flopsy: just as examples
Flopsy: as long as you aren't losing points outright or making a local blunder, you are okay
Flopsy: sure, making more points in yose is good
Flopsy: I'm just saying that a lot of effort there won't effect your actual strength that much, at this level
Flopsy: [object Object\]
Flopsy: this black sequence isn't really yose
Flopsy: it's a tactical upset of the sort usually seen in midgame
Flopsy: it has to do with some lingering problems in white's shape
Flopsy: after c9, white woulding be able to give atari in time, and the 4 stones are doomed
Flopsy: note that this works just the same even if white hadn't played e9
Flopsy: the b8 cutting stone has some forcing moves available to it, is the thing, and this is happening very close to the edge, where it's hard to escape or increase liberties
Flopsy: second line is called the line of death for a reason
Flopsy: yeah
Flopsy: yeah, things like d1 are classic yose
Flopsy: often the first line boundaries of territories are only adjusted very late in the game
Flopsy: provided the group is healthy of course
Flopsy: it expends your opportunity to play other forcing moves
Flopsy: but it does actually make white fill his own territoy
Flopsy: b9 tells me that white realized there was a problem
Flopsy: just not well in advance of trying to push forward
Flopsy: mind games
Flopsy: the core of go skill is about what works assuming your opposition is attentive, though
Flopsy: you may be surprised
Flopsy: handicap play isn't exactly about a constant effort to trick the opponent
Flopsy: though white does try to allow for certain kinds of complications, that are harder for the weaker player to read out
Flopsy: it can
Flopsy: but on the other hand, playing in that way habitually can tend to form bad habits
Flopsy: often the main problem with beginners is that they delay the invasion of the moyo
Flopsy: until the very end of the game
Flopsy: like putting off a visit to the dentist or something
Flopsy: but the invasion is generally going to be easier earlier on
Flopsy: when the territory is less consolidated
Flopsy: in other words, it's not so much the effort to invade that is wrong, as the decision to postpone that effort to the very end of the game, given that you ultimately decided that invasion is good
Flopsy: it depends on the aji
Flopsy: again, you'd better have seen that aji earlier, and tried earlier, if you think you could stand to makea  lot of points by creating a living group inside enemy territory or that kind of thing
Flopsy: if it's worth doing, it's usually worth doing earlier than late yose
Flopsy: well that is a damezumari problem
Flopsy: shortage of liberties
Flopsy: common tactical problem that shows up if you aren't careful in the endgame
Flopsy: obviously, the technique of throwing in to reduce liberties/eyes is one of the basic ones
Flopsy: so's the pattern there, of connect-and-die
Flopsy: though in that situation the overall issue has the added complication of ko
Flopsy: so there I'd say you had a tactical success during yose
Flopsy: rather than yose techniques, strictly speaking, which are about grabbing only a few points at a time by adjusting the territories a little tiny bit
Flopsy: if major groups are seriously in the risk of dying, it's generally not thought of as classic yose
Flopsy: yes, of course
Flopsy: some reading would have prevented the major problem
Flopsy: well, in chinese system too, it's costly
Flopsy: because filling your own territory is worth nothing, whereas a neutral point is worth 1
Flopsy: right
Flopsy: under most circumstances, they will be within a point of one another
Flopsy: the eyes in seki rule is an idiosyncracy, yes
Flopsy: by reading it out, elx :)
Flopsy: sure, it's worth nothing in this case
Flopsy: because white answers inside the territory, as well
Flopsy: and somewhat confusingly, you'll tend to find that it's easier to estimate the score with territory and prisoners, even if you are using area scoring
Flopsy: I wouldn't say you are horribly misranked, anyway, elx
Flopsy: you aren't the bottom-most beginner bracket, so something like 12-15k certainly feels reasonable
Flopsy: though that stuff with e5 was certainly a big oversight in this game
Flopsy: an example of the chaos and inconsistency that I'm talking about
Flopsy: sure
Flopsy: switched over
elx: So what are your comments?
]
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