(;FF[4]
CA[UTF-8]
GM[1]
DT[2018-01-15]
PC[OGS: https://online-go.com/game/11286156]
GN[Walking stones]
PB[walken!]
PW[elx]
BR[11k]
WR[5k]
TM[2400]OT[5x40 byo-yomi]
RE[W+40.5]
SZ[9]
KM[5.5]
RU[Japanese]
C[walken!: hi
elx: Hello
]
;B[fd]
C[elx: Hello
]
(;W[ef]
(;B[dd]
(;W[gf]
(;B[cf]
C[elx: expected that
elx: Btw are you going to write Malkovich comments?
walken!: dont know if it works, but I can't just give you >50% of the board without fighting :)
]
(;W[cg]
(;B[bf]
(;W[gd]
(;B[gc]
C[wingZ: black has lost
wingZ: W+ komi
]
(;W[bg]
C[elx: So far so peaceful. Am I going to win if lines just settle?
]
(;B[ge]
(;W[hd]
(;B[he]
(;W[hc]
(;B[gb]
C[elx: He doesn't want to settle
]
(;W[fe]
C[elx: Hmph I'm seeming to win this semeai unless Im missing something
]
(;B[hf]
C[walken!: go ahead
elx: or not
]
(;W[hg]
C[elx: misclick
]
(;B[gg]
C[wingZ: [object Object\]
elx: I knew that's wrong but played it anyway
]
(;W[de]
(;B[ff]
(;W[ee]
(;B[ed]
C[elx: now I'm going to lose unless walken makes a blunder
]
(;W[ce]
(;B[fg]
C[elx: c6 would have been better
]
(;W[eg]
(;B[eh]
(;W[hb]
(;B[ha]
C[wingZ: I think elx do not show the greatness of 11k in this game
EricJHan: He's better than me, so that's something
]
(;W[fc]
(;B[fb]
(;W[ec]
(;B[dc]
(;W[eb]
(;B[ea]
C[Flopsy: ugly
Flopsy: just drive the stones straight to the edge
Flopsy: 90%+ of the time, it's better than trying to follow a ladder pattern rigidly
elx: this didn't work
]
(;W[ig]
(;B[hh]
(;W[dh]
(;B[di]
C[elx: Now I have some chances
]
(;W[fh]
C[walken!: nice, I hadn't noticed the atari
elx: My blunder was worse
EricJHan: Oops
wingZ: this is the end
]
(;B[gh]
C[walken!: we'll talk about it when we're done :)
wingZ: white died
wingZ: all black need to do is another move at B7
]
(;W[fi]
C[elx: Snapback here
]
(;B[gi]
(;W[ie]
(;B[ih]
C[Flopsy: black's shown some basic capturing techniques in this game. A pretty reasonable foundation, given the rank.
]
(;W[cc]
(;B[cd]
C[Flopsy: youch
elx: Alright, another random attempt to turn it around
]
(;W[db]
(;B[bd]
C[Flopsy: still difficult for white, but this c6 was a mistake by black
]
(;W[da]
C[walken!: been too greedy
Flopsy: throwing in at g9 would have been better
Flopsy: then it would be regular connect-and-die, with no possibility of ko
elx: partly works even
]
(;B[ib]
C[elx: Who?
]
(;W[fa]
(;B[id]
C[elx: J7 is a snapback
]
(;W[ga]
(;B[if]
(;W[ic]
(;B[df]
C[Flopsy: both players passed on the left
wingZ: game still good for black
wingZ: I would say
Flopsy: d4 missed the vital point
wingZ: [object Object\]
wingZ: I wonder why
wingZ: well
wingZ: 16k game
]
(;W[be]
C[walken!: me
Flopsy: yes, of course
Flopsy: these are the kinds of mistakes you'd expect to see
Flopsy: and would want to move past, to improve
Flopsy: now white wins
]
(;B[ae]
C[Flopsy: white is in atari
wingZ: eh
]
(;W[dg]
C[wingZ: yes
Flopsy: yeah, no need to think, in this particular case
wingZ: but DDK game
wingZ: who knows
Flopsy: not for so long
wingZ: white could win this game long time ago
Flopsy: d3 is the only move that could work to generate a win here for white
]
(;B[af]
C[wingZ: [object Object\]
]
(;W[ag]
C[Flopsy: yes, white was better earlier
wingZ: with move like this
]
(;B[ad]
C[wingZ: then W+ komi
]
(;W[bc]
(;B[ei]
(;W[ci]
C[wingZ: I never like this type of game for black
]
(;B[bh]
C[Flopsy: you mean half-and-half division?
]
(;W[ac]
C[walken!: I made two major mistakes that I can immediately see
]
(;B[ie]
C[walken!: well actually j5
walken!: but that makes little difference does it ? :)
walken!: you here ?
walken!: you need to accept
elx: You can play j5 now
elx: And the last misteak ws you not playing c2 now
Flopsy: black passed?
Flopsy: no, there's j5 and c2 still
Flopsy: c2 bigger
elx: That was actia;;y mistake I guess
elx: A2 maybe?
]
(;W[ch]
C[walken!: sure :)
]
(;B[]
C[Flopsy: white wins big in the end
]
(;W[]
C[elx: That was a game of blunders
walken!: so move 49 was huge blunder of mine
elx: Let's start with the last one
walken!: needed to go c8 - forgot about our little ladder here
walken!: (not sure why you played the ladder earlier ?)
walken!: and then that unlocked the upper right corner for you
elx: because I have seen that only way for win for me were you making a blunder, so I have tried to make situation as compilcated as I can
walken!: and move 57 needed to be b5 if I was going to try that too
walken!: hahaha well that worked out well :)
elx: [object Object\]
elx: [object Object\]
walken!: I think after being unable to save the upper right I didn't play as well
walken!: as in, you start to panic when you feel you're losing it all
elx: Yeah, I know that but it doesn't work every time
elx: Yeah I have started to panic after that misclick too
walken!: elx you mentioned a blunder earlier in the game
walken!: I think it's more interesting than engame stuff here :)
walken!: because the game wasn't anywhere close by then
elx: [object Object\]
elx: I knew H3 doesn't work but played it anyway
walken!: ah. I wasn't sure where things were supposed to go at that point.
walken!: it looked to me that I was probably going to take the upper right and lose something else
elx: [object Object\]
walken!: and yes, it worked out that I didn't lose much so there was probably a blunder somewhere around move 20
walken!: actually, there was a 3rd blunder of mine
elx: Every second move was a blunder  here
walken!: move 39 seemed like an overplay
walken!: should have gone e1 or just take te upper right group rather than fight over little points
walken!: flopsy what point, move 39 ?
elx: [object Object\]
walken!: yes
walken!: so anyway I think at that point I should have simplified rather than trying to maximize
elx: walken!: so the game was like that. I'm doing lots of blunders and then trying to make at trap to capture at least some of your stones
walken!: I got over confident in the middle game
walken!: I was so happy how things were going before 39
walken!: flopsy I would enjoy a handicap 13x13
walken!: or a teaching game
walken!: yay
walken!: you send or I do ?
walken!: better you send. I'm not sure how to set up handicaps.
walken!: or even what's appropriate.
elx: I have won on 9x9 with 3 or even 4 handicaps against weaker player
elx: of course you have 3k
elx: What exactly do you mean here?
walken!: lets continue the chat here
walken!: I meant around move 38 I think I had a very nice position
walken!: I was supposed to win it
walken!: unless I got stupid
elx: What about move 56?
walken!: and 39 was overplay; if I didn't know what to do I should have played d8
elx: Actually 38 was my attempt to save at least one group
elx: I was trying to make a eyespace in corner
walken!: yes. you were entitled to that.
elx: Also it was a forced move to make you play f2 or something
elx: forcing
walken!: e1 would have worked I think ?
elx: [object Object\]
elx: [object Object\]
walken!: interesting. I don't think I really considered f2. I hesitated between e1 and d1
elx: E1 sort of works 
elx: So what next?
walken!: [object Object\]
elx: But then white gets sente
walken!: then you go back to attack my left side
walken!: ah, thats why f2 then. I get it now.
elx: i guess f2 is also gote
walken!: anyway, in the actual game things didn't go as I expected but after 45 I felt OK again
elx: Was 45 necessary?
elx: or you just wasted a move?
walken!: without 45 you could play j4
walken!: after 45, you don't have any direct5 attack on my lower right
elx: Yeah situation after 45 is pretty dire for white
elx: So 46
walken!: for me I was happy at 38, sad after 40, happy again at 45
elx: 40 wasn't big
walken!: 47 was too greedy, I tought it looked better than d8 but I just forgot about the latter
walken!: 47 was me thinking let's keep more of the left side not realizing I really needed your e8 group to not live
elx: 47 gives me escape from the ladder
walken!: yes, it was quite bad
walken!: 40 wasn't big maybe, but it wasn't clear to me at the time that it'd get back to a stable position like 45 was
walken!: I thought I'd have to run more to get it back stable.
elx: [object Object\]
walken!: so I guess it wasn't big since it worked, but I had trouble reading it.
walken!: e2
walken!: I did read that one during the game
elx: Yeah, I have missed that when extending instead of just capturing
walken!: yes.
walken!: if you capture, then I play g1 possibly, but either way I don't have as many liberties as in the actual game move 45
walken!: you can still come and bug me:
walken!: [object Object\]
walken!: and now I'm probably gonna lose the game
elx: [object Object\]
walken!: ah yes, looks like j2 still works
walken!: all right, 39 is actually small, you are right.
walken!: for some reason it had me panicking.
walken!: enough to make me forgat all about that ladder :)
elx: And what is your next move after this sequence?
walken!: instinct is c8, greedy option is b8
walken!: [object Object\]
walken!: [object Object\]
elx: greedy option doesn't work like this
elx: A9 is in atari
walken!: ah yes. so it should win a bit more.
walken!: [object Object\]
elx: Then white is in atari again
elx: Don't assume me to play lame and put myself in atari
walken!: :) I didn't see the e2 move here
walken!: which means I could blunder it if I play fast
elx: Maybe I should have risked it in actual game?
walken!: [object Object\]
walken!: sometimes I'll notice, sometimes I won't.
elx: But maybe white can win a bit more?
walken!: do you have a variation ?
walken!: I think this is about what I expect if I didn't blunder the upper lader
walken!: man, I can't believe you played the ladder knowit it wouldn't work but hoping it'd confuse me. and that I let it work for you in the end.
walken!: but thats ok, thats how one learns I guess
walken!: I got better at capture races after losing one that hurt :)
elx: [object Object\]
elx: White wins by 0.5 points
walken!: well sure but that assumes another black blunder
elx: Black shape on lower right looks vulnerable
walken!: [object Object\]
walken!: I think it's tight
walken!: that's because of j2
walken!: h1 and j1 are miai, no point
walken!: j4 -> j6 takes back
walken!: j4 and j6 are miai too, actually
walken!: so back to what I said half an hour ago, I was supposed to win this one. which makes it all that more painful to blunder it.
elx: No, I was supposed to win this one because I have a higher rank :P
walken!: (by supposed, I mean expecting, I guess, but also I think what would happen if neither side blundered)
elx: And I did at the end
walken!: :)
elx: Then we have reached the hand of god and our game would be written in Go history books forever
elx: If neither side blundered I mean
walken!: I don't think ranks work like that. but heh, my blunder is no excuse, you still deserved the win.
elx: So where do you think I made a critical mistake?
elx: Which I had to recover from
walken!: it'd have to be somewhre before 38
walken!: let me try to search for it
walken!: (it wasn't obvious enough for me to think of it that way during the game)
elx: Do you think that near 38 it was possible for black to kill off all white groups?
elx: I know the goal is to win but I like the idea of winning by killing off all opposing stones
walken!: no
walken!: near 38 I expect a result close to what our variations show
walken!: you keep your lower left group and get much of the left side
walken!: you capture my two black stones withing your lower left group
elx: B6 is rather big
walken!: and I get much of the rest
elx: you can have tried to take the top half
walken!: but yes, your 3 groups e8, h8, h3 were all supposed to die
elx: They still have their function
elx: They keep black at bay
walken!: I did look at b6 but didn't get a chance to play it
walken!: well
elx: You can have played it instead of D1
walken!: if you want we can try playing continuations from 38 and see what happens :)
walken!: yes
elx: I'm not sure if this site supports that
walken!: still, my f4 group is weak if you cat get yourself comfortable under it
walken!: it does, we can fork games
walken!: I have no idea if the forks are ranked or not
walken!: I wasn't comfortable letting you come under my f4 group because then there is a big race for me to kill your h8 group and ensure f4 and g5 don't both die
walken!: so I'm not sure I could do much with the b6 stone while I worry about you trying to kill f4
walken!: [object Object\]
walken!: [object Object\]
Flopsy: black was the last player to collapse tactically
Flopsy: yeah, white was just looking for a shortage of liberties trap
Flopsy: which black fell into in the very end
Flopsy: despite doing well otherwise
Flopsy: a2 is not the way to do it
Flopsy: [object Object\]
Flopsy: better just c2
Flopsy: there is a basic proverb, that works fairly often
Flopsy: says, your opponent's good move is yours as well
Flopsy: but it works to tell you to look at c2 for white before a2
Flopsy: white sort of lost the opportunity to at least break into the top, in that sequence
Flopsy: e6 atari would be forcing, but white never played it
Flopsy: so was losing  after black connected there, pretty clearly
Flopsy: sure, that ckind of thing, elx
Flopsy: [object Object\]
Flopsy: saving the g4 stone, and keeping f3 as a potential forcing move
Flopsy: black may even blunder it all at this point
Flopsy: yes, typically it is
Flopsy: black can sometimes make a ko of it, but there's little point to trying that in this case
Flopsy: b6 was large, at that point
wingZ: flopsy
wingZ: want to play a game with me?
wingZ: 9X9
Flopsy: 9x9 pains me
wingZ: so our DDK could learn from the proper 9X9 game
wingZ: its fast cmon
Flopsy: hah
Flopsy: I think they should move to 13x13
Flopsy: yeah, move 39
Flopsy: that way they can practice learning more things
Flopsy: while still working to consolidate their tactics
Flopsy: which is still needed
wingZ: hmmmm
wingZ: do you wanna play 13X13 against me?
wingZ: im good in both 9X9 and 13X13
Flopsy: hmm
Flopsy: I think it would be better to play a handicap game with one of these players
wingZ: perhaps you could do that
wingZ: ^^
Flopsy: like 3 or 4 stones on 13x13 could be interesting
wingZ: but they need to learn more basic shape than anything i would say
Flopsy: yes, basic shape
Flopsy: but some of the stuff only becomes more evident on a bigger board
Flopsy: like b4
wingZ: [object Object\]
Flopsy: it was  slack
wingZ: can you see you just divine the game to 2 parts
wingZ: so easy game for white, White will win with komi
wingZ: if black didnt do anything drastic
Flopsy: 9x9 is weird
Flopsy: typically it's a 1 or 2 group game with white
Flopsy: let's see how you do on 13x13 then
wingZ: hmmm
wingZ: handicap in 9X9 is ridiculous i would say
wingZ: even game is the best
wingZ: I dont think even kejie can win me in 9X9 with 3 handicap
keg4: [object Object\]
]
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