(;FF[4]
CA[UTF-8]
GM[1]
DT[2019-03-25]
PC[OGS: https://online-go.com/game/17144101]
GN[Friendly Match]
PB[mft0]
PW[fishku]
BR[9k]
WR[2k]
TM[0]OT[0 none]
RE[W+7.5]
SZ[19]
KM[0.5]
RU[Japanese]
HA[9]
AB[jd][jp][dj][pj][jj][dd][pp][pd][dp]
C[fishku: have a good game
fishku: did you see my review of our last game? Sorry, I think the variations got a bit messy when I started using a bot for analysis
fishku: this game, I'll try to play simple in the 1st half of the game, then play sharp in the 2nd half
mft0: Yeah, I'm looking through the review. Not finished yet.
mft0: Also thanks for taking me to the ramen place. (I always forget to thank people at the time).
]
;W[qf]
C[fishku: have a good game
fishku: did you see my review of our last game? Sorry, I think the variations got a bit messy when I started using a bot for analysis
fishku: this game, I'll try to play simple in the 1st half of the game, then play sharp in the 2nd half
mft0: Yeah, I'm looking through the review. Not finished yet.
mft0: Also thanks for taking me to the ramen place. (I always forget to thank people at the time).
]
(;B[nc]
(;W[rd]
C[fishku: it was nothing :) 
]
(;B[qc]
(;W[qi]
(;B[qj]
(;W[pi]
(;B[oj]
(;W[cn]
(;B[cp]
(;W[ck]
(;B[cj]
(;W[dk]
(;B[ek]
(;W[el]
(;B[fk]
(;W[fl]
(;B[bk]
(;W[bl]
C[fishku: terrible result for white. this is why c9 is usually bad here. but I said to play the simplest way :p 
]
(;B[bj]
C[mft0: Maybe I'll see stuff happening form the other side this time then :D
]
(;W[bo]
(;B[cl]
(;W[dl]
(;B[cm]
(;W[bm]
(;B[dm]
(;W[en]
(;B[dn]
(;W[do]
(;B[co]
(;W[em]
C[mft0: I'm trying to kill so hard that I forget to stay alive...
]
(;B[gp]
C[fishku: That is problematic ^^
]
(;W[ep]
(;B[eq]
(;W[fp]
(;B[fq]
(;W[qq]
(;B[qp]
(;W[pq]
(;B[oq]
(;W[or]
(;B[nq]
(;W[nr]
(;B[mr]
(;W[mq]
(;B[lr]
(;W[lq]
(;B[kq]
(;W[mo]
(;B[lp]
(;W[mp]
(;B[no]
(;W[nn]
(;B[oo]
(;W[lo]
(;B[kp]
(;W[ll]
(;B[lj]
(;W[im]
(;B[fo]
(;W[eo]
(;B[gm]
(;W[gn]
C[fishku: Well, this is getting more complicated than I wanted
mft0: At least it is my fault this time : )
]
(;B[gl]
(;W[io]
C[fishku: g8 is the strongest response I think. white should have played there instead of g6
fishku: [object Object\]
fishku: [object Object\]
]
(;B[fn]
(;W[go]
(;B[fm]
(;W[hp]
(;B[gq]
(;W[hm]
(;B[kn]
C[mft0: Lets see if I can make good use of my fighting position then
]
(;W[ko]
C[fishku: there's a proverb saying: attack for profit, not to kill
fishku: if you make a mistake when trying to kill me, it might well cost you more than when just forcing me to respond while making territory. maybe one example would be making territory around r7 for you
mft0: That makes sense, but I'm going to be stubborn and attack anyway. I'm more interested to see if I'm reading it right.
]
(;B[jo]
(;W[jn]
(;B[jm]
(;W[in]
(;B[kl]
(;W[jl]
C[fishku: fine, I will trade for now
mft0: I read fine until this point wanting to go for L7, but I just saw that K8 traps me if you do G9, so my plan didn't work. No surprise I guess : )
]
(;B[hl]
C[fishku: yes, I offered to trade my n5 for your f8 group
fishku: your g8 group**
fishku: but it looks like you refused
fishku: :)
]
(;W[km]
C[mft0: Would I be able to kill n5 then? I'm not seeing it.
]
(;B[kk]
C[fishku: [object Object\]
]
(;W[rp]
C[mft0: I see. that is more moves than I thought.
]
(;B[ro]
(;W[rq]
(;B[om]
(;W[nm]
(;B[nl]
(;W[ml]
(;B[on]
(;W[cc]
(;B[cd]
(;W[dc]
(;B[ec]
(;W[eb]
(;B[fc]
(;W[fb]
(;B[gb]
(;W[gc]
(;B[gd]
(;W[hc]
(;B[hb]
(;W[ic]
C[fishku: the hane (bend) at g18 is a mistake, same as n2. it's better to extend straight (g17, n3)
fishku: white has no interest in crawling forever on the 2nd line anyway, so no need to stop white by bending around the shape. black gains outside influence that is more valuable than the 1 point of territory per move white makes by pushing on
]
(;B[ib]
(;W[jc]
(;B[jb]
(;W[kc]
(;B[kb]
(;W[lc]
(;B[fa]
C[fishku: relevant proverb: https://senseis.xmp.net/?SixDieButEightLive
]
(;W[db]
C[fishku: That is for the second line. On the third line, the characteristics change somewhat: https://senseis.xmp.net/?FourDieButSixLive
]
(;B[mb]
(;W[he]
(;B[hd]
(;W[id]
(;B[ff]
(;W[fd]
(;B[ge]
(;W[ed]
(;B[ie]
(;W[bd]
(;B[hf]
(;W[bp]
(;B[bq]
(;W[rc]
(;B[rb]
(;W[qd]
(;B[pf]
(;W[qg]
(;B[pg]
(;W[lf]
(;B[le]
(;W[ke]
(;B[ld]
(;W[kd]
(;B[kf]
(;W[je]
(;B[jf]
(;W[pe]
(;B[oe]
(;W[qe]
(;B[pc]
(;W[rj]
(;B[rk]
(;W[ri]
(;B[oh]
C[fishku: This is the point where I would consider the last part of the game to start.
fishku: black is ahead, but there are some very large points left on the board.
fishku: a huge point swing is possible at the bottom side of the board. can you see it?
fishku: there is another large point in the upper left quadrant. What could happen?
]
(;W[ik]
(;B[df]
C[mft0: This is one thing I see at the upper left. Didn't see anything critical on the bottom half yet, but need to look longer
fishku: yes, excellent move
fishku: still, it's impossible to save your territory on the left AND the two stones. You can guess which one is bigger :) 
]
(;W[bf]
C[fishku: so black will have to make this choice now (save the stones, save the territory)!
fishku: [object Object\]
fishku: [object Object\]
fishku: I calculate one of these outcomes to be 3 points better than the other (I had to use pen & paper, I'm trying to learn from these games as well :) )
mft0: I count a difference of 6, without paper. Probably not very precice, as I try to resolve all neutral spaces in the area as simple as possbile when I count that. 
]
(;B[bg]
C[fishku: yes, it's an imprecise method at this point of the game, because we're only looking at the local situation.
]
(;W[cf]
C[fishku: so we don't know the optimal order of moves to finish off the local situation, and thus we can't calculate the exact score
fishku: (because that would depend on the global situation)
]
(;B[cg]
(;W[de]
(;B[ee]
(;W[ce]
C[fishku: any ideas about the bottom? what about connecting and splitting of groups?
]
(;B[iq]
C[mft0: I didn't find a very big weakness yet, but this seems to make my groups a bit safer.
fishku: [object Object\]
fishku: [object Object\]
]
(;W[hq]
C[mft0: I guess I'm not playing white well enough in analyze.
]
(;B[hr]
(;W[ip]
(;B[kr]
C[fishku: black is still ahead by about 10-15 points :)
]
(;W[hk]
C[fishku: What's bigger here? saving the 6 stones, or preventing white from jumping into your center territory?
fishku: [object Object\]
fishku: [object Object\]
mft0: I was planning to save them, but it looks like the center is more valuable.
mft0: Why H11 instead of H10?
fishku: [object Object\]
fishku: h10 is very "tight", and close to white's thickness. In this case, white can atari and the result is actually worse for black than when playing further away
]
(;B[hi]
(;W[gk]
C[fishku: welcome back :)
fishku: actually I don't see why black couldn't block g9 directly from above
fishku: the variation I put before is maybe overly cautious
]
(;B[fj]
C[mft0: Thanks : )
mft0: [object Object\]
fishku: yeah, exactly
]
(;W[gj]
(;B[gi]
(;W[ij]
(;B[ii]
C[fishku: now, there's a point in the lower left corner where white can steal a good deal of territory
]
(;W[ea]
C[fishku: certainly bigger than defending the f19 stone
fishku: any suspects? :)
fishku: white wants to get a better result than a3
mft0: [object Object\]
]
(;B[aq]
C[fishku: yes, congrats for finding a3 correctly :)
fishku: [object Object\]
fishku: [object Object\]
fishku: while looking up "second line clamp", I also found this nice reduction here :)
]
(;W[rl]
(;B[sk]
(;W[rn]
(;B[so]
(;W[qm]
(;B[qn]
(;W[qk]
(;B[pk]
(;W[ql]
(;B[sn]
(;W[sl]
(;B[rm]
(;W[mc]
C[fishku: another tricky move
]
(;B[md]
(;W[lb]
(;B[la]
(;W[nb]
(;B[ma]
(;W[nd]
(;B[oc]
C[mft0: Amazing that I didn't see that...
]
(;W[me]
C[fishku: well, it was a few moves deep
fishku: you saved the correct stone though :)
fishku: white eating o17 would have been a disaster
]
(;B[lg]
C[mft0: I read a lot deeper, but not wide enough to see that one.
mft0: Same with R7.
]
(;W[mg]
C[fishku: interesting insight :)
]
(;B[mh]
(;W[ng]
(;B[nh]
C[mft0: I was tempted ty try O14, but didn't because it becomes too complicated.
]
(;W[nk]
(;B[ol]
(;W[mj]
(;B[lk]
(;W[mk]
(;B[mi]
(;W[ap]
(;B[cq]
(;W[fe]
(;B[ef]
(;W[ag]
(;B[ah]
(;W[af]
(;B[ai]
(;W[pr]
(;B[nf]
(;W[ne]
C[fishku: there's some danger lurking for black in the lower right
fishku: what's the complicated variation you found after o14?
]
(;B[jr]
C[mft0: O14 was just trying to force you to play N14 otherwise I would cut you off. but I noticed something bigger (I think) after I made the move.
mft0: Is this the lower right move? or are you talking about something else?
fishku: this is one which would have cost you some points, well found
fishku: but I see something else
]
(;W[oi]
C[fishku: black is now cut
fishku: AFAICT
]
(;B[np]
C[mft0: I don't think that is a super big deal, if I can live with this.
fishku: [object Object\]
fishku: [object Object\]
fishku: [object Object\]
]
(;W[ln]
C[fishku: yes, this is the most elegant way to live
fishku: in sente
mft0: [object Object\]
mft0: oh wait, that is the same one
fishku: it's correct, but not finished yet. black needs to add a stone
fishku: yes :)
fishku: k1 is called a "throw-in" in that variation
mft0: [object Object\]
fishku: basically a stone that you sacrifice to make the opponent lose liberties and/or eyes
fishku: no, white will throw-in at 9, play at k1
mft0: oh, right you play k1 then
]
(;B[pm]
(;W[sb]
(;B[sm]
(;W[sj]
(;B[ra]
(;W[ga]
(;B[ha]
C[fishku: is there a possible throw-in here?
]
(;W[fa]
(;B[ns]
(;W[os]
(;B[ms]
(;W[sp]
C[fishku: (at the top)
mft0: [object Object\]
fishku: :0
mft0: [object Object\]
]
(;B[qh]
C[mft0: One way to find out...
]
(;W[ph]
C[mft0: Not sure what went wrong there :S
]
(;B[al]
(;W[am]
(;B[ak]
(;W[jk]
(;B[li]
(;W[og]
(;B[of]
(;W[mf]
(;B[od]
(;W[ni]
(;B[ob]
C[mft0: I now see that I was wrong.
fishku: Great :)
]
(;W[ok]
(;B[pl]
(;W[nj]
(;B[kh]
C[fishku: you saw it!
]
(;W[sc]
C[mft0: yep
]
(;B[rr]
C[fishku: nice, I misread this before. It's actually ko
]
(;W[sr]
C[mft0: I didn't see a way to win this, but I thought I'd try anyway : )
]
(;B[qs]
(;W[rs]
(;B[ss]
(;W[qo]
(;B[po]
(;W[rs]
(;B[rk]
(;W[sk]
(;B[ss]
(;W[ka]
(;B[ja]
(;W[rs]
(;B[bn]
(;W[an]
(;B[ss]
(;W[na]
(;B[oa]
(;W[rs]
(;B[mm]
(;W[mn]
(;B[ss]
C[fishku: this ko is really very favorable for black. even small threats are enough for black to turn the game over if white ignores, whereas white needs to find large threats not to make too much of a loss if they lose
fishku: the only good thing for white is that black will need two steps to win :) 
]
(;W[qr]
C[mft0: yeah, If I ignore 2 small threads I will likely still not have enough points.
mft0: threats*
]
(;B[sq]
(;W[gf]
C[fishku: I count B+ now
fishku: (meaning black wins)
mft0: I can still play it safe assuming I can trust that you sorted your threats by size. I think I have enough still : )
fishku: it's a difficult risk assessment :p
fishku: is it safer to continue the ko, or to finish the ko, but play the aftermath of the threat?
mft0: I'm cheathing with estimate score, and I think this might actually be a pretty good place to take it
fishku: that's what I assumed when saying B+
fishku: (that B takes the ko)
mft0: I'm only a bit worried that I do something stupid after ignoring the threat
]
(;B[ps]
(;W[he]
C[fishku: I'm hopeful
]
(;B[if]
(;W[gg]
(;B[fg]
(;W[fh]
(;B[eh]
(;W[fi]
(;B[ej]
(;W[dg]
(;B[eg]
(;W[ei]
(;B[dh]
(;W[gh]
(;B[hh]
(;W[hg]
(;B[ig]
(;W[di]
(;B[ci]
(;W[ge]
(;B[]
(;W[hj]
C[fishku: it's a close one :)
]
(;B[ji]
(;W[sa]
(;B[qb]
C[mft0: now it is a bit too close 0.o
]
(;W[]
C[fishku: Congrats on a game well fought and a win well earned!
fishku: (I'm trusting score est)
fishku: the automatic analysis seems to be back, shall we move to the beta server? https://beta.online-go.com/game/3451
]
(;B[]
C[mft0: Thanks, it was very close at the end there.
mft0: I made an account, same name as this one
fishku: lol, why did score estimate fail this one?
fishku: game was literally over
fishku: still good game :) thanks
fishku: I can't figure out how to search for people
fishku: bad UX
fishku: got it, I can literally just type your name in the search bar
fishku: [object Object\]
mft0: I bet it is because of the prisoners as well.
mft0: or maybe not. I don't see how this works either. Summing the points and teritory gives w+7.5 and the score estimation doesn't seem to change anything.
mft0: I also found a bug. Clicking estimate score now, and then back to game the dead groups return and the scoring overview at the top changes too.
mft0: refreshing the page fixes it.
]
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