(;FF[4]
CA[UTF-8]
GM[1]
DT[2025-03-19]
PC[OGS: https://online-go.com/game/73448465]
GN[Friendly Match]
PB[DaddyOho]
PW[shinuito]
BR[15k]
WR[2k]
TM[259200]OT[86400 fischer]
RE[B+4.5]
SZ[19]
KM[0.5]
RU[Japanese]
HA[9]
AB[jd][jp][dj][pj][jj][dd][pp][pd][dp]
C[shinuito: Have fun.
DaddyOho: You too!
]
;W[nq]
C[DaddyOho: You too!
]
(;B[qn]
(;W[pm]
(;B[lq]
(;W[qm]
(;B[qq]
(;W[rn]
(;B[qo]
(;W[lp]
(;B[np]
(;W[kq]
(;B[mq]
(;W[mp]
(;B[nr]
(;W[kp]
(;B[oq]
(;W[pg]
(;B[nc]
(;W[nj]
(;B[cn]
(;W[ch]
(;B[cf]
(;W[eh]
(;B[gq]
(;W[cq]
(;B[cp]
(;W[dq]
(;B[eq]
(;W[er]
(;B[fr]
(;W[ep]
(;B[fq]
(;W[bp]
(;B[dr]
(;W[cr]
(;B[es]
(;W[bo]
(;B[eo]
(;W[bn]
(;B[cm]
(;W[bm]
(;B[cl]
(;W[ej]
(;B[ek]
(;W[fk]
(;B[fl]
(;W[el]
(;B[dk]
(;W[gl]
(;B[fm]
(;W[ij]
(;B[gk]
(;W[ji]
(;B[fj]
(;W[jk]
(;B[kj]
(;W[ki]
(;B[kk]
(;W[jl]
(;B[hl]
(;W[nn]
(;B[on]
(;W[om]
(;B[jn]
(;W[im]
C[shinuito: j7 probably isn't very good tbh
]
(;B[hn]
(;W[km]
(;B[kn]
(;W[ln]
(;B[gh]
(;W[dc]
(;B[cc]
(;W[ec]
(;B[ed]
(;W[cb]
(;B[fc]
(;W[fb]
(;B[gc]
(;W[gb]
(;B[hc]
(;W[bc]
(;B[cd]
(;W[bb]
(;B[hb]
(;W[fe]
(;B[ef]
(;W[fg]
(;B[hf]
(;W[gg]
(;B[hg]
(;W[hh]
(;B[gi]
(;W[he]
(;B[jf]
(;W[fd]
C[DaddyOho: Very complicated now
]
(;B[ff]
(;W[gf]
(;B[ee]
(;W[bg]
C[shinuito: Yeah I had to try make it complicated :)
]
(;B[gd]
(;W[ge]
(;B[eg]
(;W[be]
(;B[fh]
(;W[rd]
(;B[qc]
(;W[rc]
(;B[nf]
(;W[ng]
(;B[mf]
(;W[qb]
(;B[pb]
(;W[qd]
(;B[pc]
(;W[jg]
(;B[ie]
(;W[pe]
(;B[dh]
(;W[io]
(;B[ho]
(;W[ip]
(;B[jq]
(;W[jo]
(;B[iq]
(;W[in]
(;B[hp]
(;W[jr]
(;B[ir]
(;W[ks]
(;B[ro]
(;W[rm]
(;B[qh]
(;W[qg]
(;B[mg]
(;W[nh]
(;B[bj]
(;W[cs]
(;B[lr]
(;W[kr]
(;B[mh]
(;W[mi]
(;B[bd]
C[DaddyOho: Things seem to be crystallising now
DaddyOho: I hope !
]
(;W[ad]
(;B[bf]
(;W[af]
C[shinuito: Yeah seems like it :)
]
(;B[ci]
(;W[is]
(;B[hr]
(;W[so]
(;B[sp]
(;W[sn]
(;B[rq]
(;W[ig]
(;B[if]
(;W[kf]
(;B[ke]
(;W[rb]
(;B[oe]
(;W[of]
(;B[lf]
(;W[kg]
(;B[hi]
(;W[ob]
C[DaddyOho: Wow nice
]
(;B[oc]
C[DaddyOho: I'll try to remember this one
]
(;W[pa]
C[shinuito: I'm not even sure it's good XD
DaddyOho: It is gote I guess
]
(;B[nb]
C[shinuito: yeah there's bits of endgame where you can gain like a point more than another sequence by gote vs sente
]
(;W[cg]
(;B[ce]
(;W[ae]
(;B[ga]
(;W[eb]
(;B[bl]
(;W[lh]
(;B[le]
C[DaddyOho: I really think we can finish this today. I'm sitting minding a chess tournament
DaddyOho: Of course I should be using my time to spreadsheet how many points each move is worth and if it's sente or gote... But I won't be doing that
shinuito: I mean I haven't been either
shinuito: too much work :P
]
(;W[oa]
(;B[na]
C[DaddyOho: Right???
DaddyOho: I really hope I don't lose by 1.5 points after saying something so hubristic 
]
(;W[qa]
C[shinuito: Nah I'm worried I've losing by 10-15 points or more since a while back
shinuito: like connecting b13 might not have been enough way back at move 103, like that kind of a plan
DaddyOho: I mean you've gained about 100 points on me so I'd say you're doing pretty well anyway hahaha
]
(;B[ih]
(;W[dg]
C[shinuito: unfortuneately it might not be enough :P
shinuito: unfortunately
]
(;B[ei]
C[shinuito: we'll see, I think we can finish it and find out how close I managed :P
]
(;W[ah]
C[DaddyOho: The estimate score function has thought you were dead in in the upper left for about 50 moves I have no idea what it thought was going on
shinuito: I don't think the estimate score is very good in game
shinuito: I remember a good few years ago resigning a game because I checked with it, and apparently there was chances and it was way off XD
shinuito: So I kind of don't like it anymore, unless the game is basically over :P
DaddyOho: Yeah
DaddyOho: It seems to randomise also which is interesting
shinuito: I think it's a monte carlo playout type thing, it just randomly plays moves to determine what's alive or dead
DaddyOho: Interesting
]
(;B[ai]
(;W[oo]
(;B[pn]
(;W[no]
(;B[op]
(;W[hm]
(;B[gm]
(;W[hk]
(;B[hj]
(;W[ik]
(;B[fa]
(;W[ea]
(;B[ha]
(;W[ls]
(;B[ms]
(;W[co]
(;B[do]
(;W[al]
(;B[ak]
(;W[am]
(;B[hs]
(;W[df]
(;B[ds]
(;W[ii]
(;B[jh]
C[DaddyOho: I think I might have squeaked it 
DaddyOho: Pretty sure I lost ten points at least in the last few moves, but all the moves looked like gote for me so I'm not sure
]
(;W[il]
C[shinuito: The graph'll be fun so :)
]
(;B[gl]
(;W[kh]
(;B[hh]
(;W[js]
(;B[bi]
(;W[ac]
(;B[bh]
(;W[ag]
(;B[eh]
(;W[lg]
(;B[po]
(;W[de]
(;B[]
(;W[]
C[DaddyOho: GG
shinuito: Good game well played! :)
DaddyOho: What a graph
shinuito: I couldn’t make it in the end :)
DaddyOho: Straight line down almost hahaha what's the deviation 
shinuito: I guess I did give up the top middle stones too easily 
DaddyOho: Well I squeaked it anyhow
DaddyOho: Lucky to. I can print out an 11 kyu certificate now is that right???
shinuito: Yeah definitely :)
DaddyOho: I think it's interesting that katago thinks that each of the handicap stones is worth 13 points, all the way 1-9, very consistently
DaddyOho: Not sure how long you can go without diminishing returns
shinuito: Sure didn’t your recent opponents also say you were much better :)
DaddyOho: Can we have a rematch with 8 stones?
shinuito: Yeah the handicap stones are interesting the way it compares to points. Chinese rules you can also do free placement handicap
DaddyOho: I should book up, I know strategies exist to win safely
DaddyOho: Feels a bit cheaty though
shinuito: Yeah sure let’s go, I need to keep improving my handicap game
shinuito: I’m not even sure what the strategies are to win safely :)
DaddyOho: The free placement is interesting compared to this way. I'd have to think about where I'd put my stones. Maybe just 3 corner enclosures
shinuito: I think the opponent will also try to push into a fight and then hopefully can make a trade or capture something 
shinuito: Yeah and I’ll have to think of what to do against three corner enclosures :P
DaddyOho: We can use the standard way though, I think that's ok
DaddyOho: Rather than free placement
DaddyOho: It's a more apples to apples comparison between the 2 games
shinuito: At least the standard handicap placement is still useful for tournament practice. The year before last I took 9 stones against a strong Korean player in the rapid tournament 
shinuito: I got wrecked XD
DaddyOho: Tough...
shinuito: True also
shinuito: [object Object\]
shinuito: [object Object\]
DaddyOho: I was looking at doing something like this but at some stage I strengthened you too much and made it impossible I think somehow
]
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