(;FF[4]
CA[UTF-8]
GM[1]
DT[2019-02-24]
GN[]
PC[https://online-go.com/review/376748]
BR[10d]
WR[10d]
TM[0]OT[0 none]
RE[?]
SZ[13]
KM[6.5]
RU[Japanese]

;B[jd]C[

-- chat --
ClickDecision: so im on my own team?
ldlework: no you play a move for white
ldlework: next you'll play a move for black
ldlework: and so forth
ldlework: we're all trying to contribute the best moves we can
ldlework: then we'll review
ldlework: the point is that no one wins or loses and we can get to playing stones without any anxiety of winning or losing
ldlework: sorry I thought I explained in full
ldlework: are you saying you would not like to play?
ldlework: well no pressure to go through with it if you can't have fun
ldlework: your turn otherwise!
ldlework: that's not how demo boards work
ldlework: just say your move in chat
ldlework: ...
ldlework: it's a demo board
ldlework: if you start a variation, no that's private
ldlework: but *you* can see what *I* do
ldlework: so say your move and I will place it on the board >_>
ldlework: I didn't make this website, sorry.
ldlework: Yeah

]
;W[dj]C[

-- chat --
ClickDecision: oh weird
ClickDecision: so im playing against myself?
ClickDecision: who am i rooting for lol
ClickDecision: i think it'd be more fun with set teams 
ClickDecision: I see so atm all that's on the board is the black stone on the star point yeah?
ClickDecision: ok then d4
ldlework: \\o/
ClickDecision: calm your tits mate. this is not at all a common way to play 
ldlework: Sorry, but I feel a lot of pressure to conform to your expectations when this was just supposed to be a lighthearted study exercise. 
ldlework: carot, your turn for black :O
ldlework: Sorry I didn't meet your expectations! I hope you get it now.
ldlework: :S
ldlework: np
ldlework: remember to say your move in chat
ldlework: not place it on the board
ClickDecision: how often have you tried this with people?
ldlework: Because this is how the demo board on this website works.
ClickDecision: i gotta imagine you'd have to explain to people over and over what to do lol
ClickDecision: we can't see them though
ClickDecision: so we have to tell him 
ldlework: Yes, you can do private variations, just like when you view a board on this website in any context.

]
;B[cc]
;W[ji]C[

-- chat --
ldlework: now click for black
ClickDecision: hmmm
ldlework: an so on
ClickDecision: c6

]
;B[ch]C[

-- chat --
ldlework: :O
ClickDecision: kinda regret that a little haha maybe the 4th line would be better
ldlework: I like how the board looks for black
ldlework: good move :)
ldlework: carot for white...
ClickDecision: heh thanks we'll see how it goes : )
ClickDecision: carot you thinking on this?
ClickDecision: i think it's your move yeah?
ldlework: I will write down the rules of Adventure Go for the future
ldlework: carot
ldlework: the point behind adventure go
ldlework: is we cycle between white and black
ldlework: every player plays both colors
ldlework: you played black last time
ldlework: so now you play white
ldlework: notice there are three of us
carot: I must have not played C11 then.
ldlework: You did play C11
ClickDecision: im just glad im not the only who got confused lmao
ldlework: You are probably still viewing a private variation
ClickDecision: click that sync button
carot: Ah, but when I did the board didn't show K5.  OK.  I understand now.
ldlework: and not the most recent move on the main variation of the demo board
ldlework: Nice
ldlework: I will write it all down for next time
ldlework: So what's your move for white carot?
carot: E11.  White should mess up the middle and then play L11.
ldlework: So E11 for white?
carot: Yes.

]
;W[ec]C[

-- chat --
ldlework: nice

]
(;B[hc]C[Probably better at D9 - connects stones - see variation

-- chat --
ldlework: click for white 
ClickDecision: yeah imma thinkin
ClickDecision: yuck i dont like white's spot lol
carot: But white can attack black on the left now.
ldlework: that's what I was thinking
carot: I think white is winning.  (Remember white has komi.)
ldlework: 4 space jump = bad
ClickDecision: well don't hate for me messing this up lol
ClickDecision: not a position im familiar with
ldlework: we wont, it's all about exploring a game progression together
ldlework: get it
ClickDecision: d9
ldlework: "adventure go"
ldlework: ;)

]
;W[de]C[Might be better at C10. This allows black to connect.

-- chat --
ldlework: I never play 5/4 corners in my own games :P
ClickDecision: yeah me neither ^
ldlework: but if we're going on an adventure... might as well
ldlework: :D
ldlework: I hope you can see the spirit behind the exercise
ldlework: carot for black
carot: B9
carot: although I'm not sure why.

]
(;B[be]C[Passive - see variation.

-- chat --
carot: Black could push through at D10 ... but I just don't like that.
ldlework: just feels good :)

]
;W[cf]C[

-- chat --
ClickDecision: hmm
ldlework: imagine having like 8 people go on an adventure
ClickDecision: b8

]
;B[bf]C[

-- chat --
ClickDecision: maybe too conservative?
ClickDecision: wonder if I should've played a bigger move
carot: It's fine.  Got to stay alive.
ldlework: nah, i think instead my move was too aggressive
carot: F8

]
(;W[ff]C[Not sure what this achieves - if connection is an issue then white can just C7. See variation.

-- chat --
ldlework: ooo
ldlework: nice

]
;B[ck]C[Good move.

-- chat --
ldlework: :O
carot: But now white's safe in the middle and has sente.
carot: White can just ignore C3.
ldlework: you think?
ClickDecision: can it??
ClickDecision: that seems reckless
carot: If there's something big to play, yes.
ldlework: black d3 is important
ldlework: when i study with bots, they NEVER let me ignore a 3x3 invasion during review
ClickDecision: yeah that seems nuts
ClickDecision: i think i have to respond
ClickDecision: otherwise we lose the corner
ClickDecision: well more of the corner
ClickDecision: haha
ldlework: not to shut you down, i would hear the reasoning you have
ldlework: sorry
carot: Exactly.  You've lost the corner.  Another move here is small.
ldlework: white should block d3
ldlework: imo
ldlework: black d3 isn't just the corner anymore
ClickDecision: you'd give black the whole side?
ClickDecision: and the corner?
ldlework: black will get one
ldlework: left or bottom
ClickDecision: my instinct was c4
ldlework: well always aiming to cut is good
ldlework: i am fine with either block, i can argue either but white *should* block I think
ldlework: but i'm bad at go so 
ClickDecision: well let's do c4 and if it's bad you can demonstrate why

]
;W[cj]C[

-- chat --
ldlework: carot's turn
carot: B4

]
;B[bj]C[Better at D3.]
;W[dk]C[

-- chat --
ClickDecision: c2
ldlework: click for black

]
;B[cl]C[Better at either B3 or B2 to keep connected.

-- chat --
ClickDecision: how does one expand on a 5-4 corner haha
carot: B5
ClickDecision: i keep looking at that trying to think what to do with it lol

]
;W[bi]C[Good move.

-- chat --
carot: I don't think anything on the right is urgent.
ClickDecision: no it's not but in the future
carot: Especially after H11 - that was a good move IMO.
ClickDecision: im wondering what to do with it
ldlework: argh
carot: Eventually, someone will play K3 or L3.
carot: Either side can play either of those points.
ldlework: k3 is my favorite
ldlework: i want to sacrifice B4 

]
;B[ci]C[Suicidal.

-- chat --
ldlework: let's do it
ldlework: (or not, up to us! haha)
ClickDecision: hehe
ClickDecision: b3

]
;W[bk]C[

-- chat --
carot: K3
carot: Black is just dead in the bottom left now.  :-(
carot: Unless black gets to approach it from the right, later.
ClickDecision: only issue with this adventure style is I don't know if I'm supposed to be happy about any outcome lol
ClickDecision: who am i rooting for!? xD
carot: Exactly!
ldlework: we'll check in review

]
;B[jk]C[Good move.

-- chat --
ldlework: i feel like you should be able to approach any board position
ldlework: for any color to move
ldlework: and try to decide the best move
ldlework: that's the point, not to win or root for any color
ldlework: I have no idea where to go though 
ldlework: haha

]
;W[kf]C[Probably not as big as responding directly to K3, but still a move.

-- chat --
ClickDecision: did you just play at l8?
ldlework: as the demo operator I can't do private variations
ldlework: yeah
ClickDecision: ah okay
ldlework: before I was reading B2 A4 E2
ldlework: but I trust carot it doesn't work but I want to read it out in review
ClickDecision: hmm that left corner is driving me nuts
carot: Black can get OUT of the corner, as ldlework says ...
carot: ... but will have nowhere to make eyes ...
carot: ... unless black approaches from the right first.
carot: Hint hint.
carot: Or black could take the upper right corner.
carot: I'm not sure which is bigger.
ldlework: B2 A4 E2 D2 D1 E3 G2 something like that
carot: Not E3.  But otherwise yes.
ldlework: so
ClickDecision: imma go with....
ClickDecision: g3?
ldlework: there's a few additional players that want to join
ldlework: do we want to welcome them to the game / start over / reject them?

]
;B[gk]C[Good move.

-- chat --
ldlework: I went with welcome
ldlework: carot for white
ldlework: do you block at D2?
carot: Yes.
carot: Although it's painful for white, now that black's approached.  :-(
ldlework: yeah that's why I think my progression was needed at the time
ldlework: it is
carot: Now white needs sente, to invade the upper right.
carot: And I don't see how white gets sente.  Hope black makes a mistake, maybe.
ClickDecision: that concept is lost on me. why is sente required to attack the corner?
ldlework: hi kadoban
carot: Because it's black's turn!  White's just played at D2.

]
;W[dl]C[

-- chat --
kadoban: hello
carot: Although that move's not showing up, so I'm not surprised you're confused.
carot: Hi kadoban.
ldlework: sorry
carot: nw
ClickDecision: im not very good at thinking about the game either
ClickDecision: so there's that too
ldlework: do we not enter the middle as black?
carot: And the reason white needs to attack the corner is that now all the groups are safe, so we can count points, and I believe white is behind on points if black gets the corner.  Although I haven't actualyl counted because I'm lazy.
ldlework: m11?
ldlework: l11?
carot: Yes, or M10.  I think M10 is safer, but we should read out M11.
carot: Not I11.  White gets almost no points that way and black gets thick.
ldlework: hm m10 safer than m11?
ldlework: it's black's turn
carot: Yes ... unless white can kill black.  WHich might be possible.  Hm.
carot: I don't know.
carot: If L10 kills black then of course that's good!
carot: And maybe it does.
ldlework: it's black's turn
ldlework: black M11
carot: Oh right.
ldlework: seems like safety
carot: I was thinking head.  Sorry.
ldlework: black M11 or M4
ldlework: can't decide
carot: So M10 or L10.
carot: M4 is not sente.

]
;B[ld]C[

-- chat --
kadoban: What's the format of this? We just discuss the next move all together really?
carot: Now we should count, but 
ldlework: well we've kind of devolved into that
ClickDecision: (i still think team go is better : P )
carot: ... I think white's in trouble.  Maybe should try to kill black at the bottom.
ldlework: but since it's collaborative and a study exercise that's ok
ldlework: click your turn
carot: Shall we count?  Black has about 12 at the top right.
ClickDecision: yeah white not lookin great from my noob eyes
carot: Maybe 8 in the top left.
carot: At least six on the bottom.
carot: So that's > 26.
kadoban: White can play B6, maybe cutting off those two black stones. Bottom right is probably more urgent though
carot: White has say four on the right, four in the middle, and 12 in the bottom left, plus komi.
carot: So it's actually quite close.  I was wrong to be too worried for white.
carot: I agree with kadoban: B6 is good, but not urgent.
ldlework: I like a shoulder hit near the bottom for white
ldlework: or even cap
kadoban: I'm thinking more corner. L3 if it works
carot: Why not white L3?
carot: Yes.
ClickDecision: sure 
ClickDecision: l3

]
;W[kk]C[Past few moves have all been pretty reasonable. Good.

-- chat --
ldlework: kadoban for black
carot: Black can't reply with L4 because of the weakness on the left.
kadoban: I think cap or whatever would be better if white already has B6
kadoban: Black probably L2 maybe?
carot: I think so, yes.

]
;B[kl]C[

-- chat --
kadoban: K4 or L4. Probably L4?
ClickDecision: hey i gotta run sorry guys
ClickDecision: was fun though
carot: K4 looks good to me.
ldlework: "...but not as fun as team go"

]
;W[jj]C[Is there a reason to play this rather than just L4?

-- chat --
kadoban: Now black gets to pick psycho or passive. M3 or J3
kadoban: Or is L4 possible?
carot: If playing on the right, I think M4.
carot: But I think J3 is bigger, no?
carot: Sorry not M4!  I misread that.
ldlework: my intution is that black k2 forces white to fix
carot: M3 is a gote sequence, so that's a problem.
ldlework: then black can do a more serious move in the middle
kadoban: Well M3, can white J3? What happens?
carot: White can J3 then, yes.
carot: ldlework, I'm not sure K2 is sente.
kadoban: Then black take, then ... atari?
ldlework: black would get the stone for sure
carot: I think black's best hope at sente is M2.
carot: Only that's so small.  :-(
ldlework: capturing race
ldlework: black K2, white tenuki, black L4 white M3 black M4
kadoban: M2 now seems not forceful enough. White will be happy to play J3 and it's going to be sente to get like the whole center
ldlework: black is going to win
ldlework: am I wrong?
carot: Seems close to me.  See count above.
kadoban: Black seems like should be ahead after J3 or K2 maybe
carot: I'm going offline fairly soon.  For some reason I thought this was going to be a correspondence game ... although doing it live is fine.

]
;B[jl]C[Better at J3 I think.

-- chat --
ldlework: let's see white tenuki and black resist the atari
carot: Whose turn is it?
ldlework: kadobon
ldlework: for white
carot: I'm wondering whether white M3 is sente.
carot: It's tricky for black to live if black ignores white M3.
kadoban: It could be sente, but black wants to respond in the middle probably anyway so I dunno if it matters
kadoban: wM3 probably bG5 ?
ldlework: I was thinking M3 E5 lol
ldlework: but that's bad
carot: But the middle is very small, unless any of the groups can be severely attacked there.
kadoban: E5 looks possibleish too
carot: Black can come into the middle from the top or the bottom, so they're miai.
kadoban: The middle is small, except there's not much else to do anyway
ldlework: E2 is sente
carot: The top and the right are both still quite big.
kadoban: M3 looks kind of required for white
carot: And B6.
ldlework: so is white not gonna fix
kadoban: L6 is a fun shape move for black sometime
kadoban: White really doesn't want to fix, probably has to though?
ldlework: exactly
ldlework: why i just had to go k2
carot: I would want to play M3 as white, because I think it's sente.
ldlework: then black can rethink 
kadoban: I think just M3. It's "sente" in the sense that black is going to respond anyway, but it's not the good kind of sente
ldlework: it's sente but black wants to respond
ldlework: heh yeah
kadoban: It's sente to make black eat our own face
kadoban: I think m3 though, I don't see how to avoid it
carot: I've just realised what we need.  We need a strong player!
ldlework: L4
carot: One would do.
kadoban: Other option is crazy play for center, but it doesn't look good
ldlework: well
ldlework: we're supposed to discuss this stuff after
ldlework: but i don't mind ^_^'
ldlework: I make a rule about Adventure Go that during the game only emotes are allowed.
kadoban: L4 possible. I would only play it because of shape towards L8 though. If it fixes L6 shape point? I dunno
kadoban: I don't think it fixes enough
ldlework: It just means black M3 is slower
ldlework: But still good..
ldlework: I think you're right
kadoban: L6 and M5 shape points are ... scary as white
ldlework: Oh M4 is nice
ldlework: makes B M3 really really bad
ldlework: well nm
ldlework: go with your gut you're the strongest person here!
ldlework: XD
kadoban: M4 I think black will just still ignore, and probably later get M3
kadoban: I think white has to m3, it's just not satisfying
ldlework: to the merit of K2 :)
kadoban: It's that or crazypants H2 or something
kadoban: Try to trick black into getting the corner
ldlework: :O
ldlework: let's play
ldlework: cuz carot has to go
ldlework: get it
ldlework: go
kadoban: Ya that's fine
kadoban: Oh do I play?
ldlework: just say which move you want
ldlework: for white
kadoban: M3 I suppose

]
;W[lk]C[

-- chat --
kadoban: Now black ...

]
;B[el]C[E2 doesn't feel right. Probably better to just run out. End of comments.

-- chat --
ldlework: deal with it
kadoban: Probably something like G5? miai to get by cutting off B6 or Playing J9ish and getting stuff there?
kadoban: I don't think it's sente enough to respond
ldlework: carot for white
kadoban: Hm, did carot already have to leave?
carot: E1

]
;W[em]C[

-- chat --
ldlework: sick move
carot: I'm still hoping to make black take gote.
kadoban: Kind of want to ignore as black. I didn't like E2 much though, so I dunno if black has to play f2 or something instead
ldlework: sorry :(
carot: You can't ignore YET.  You don't want to die!
kadoban: Well ignore at G5 or something
kadoban: Won't die

]
;B[hi]C[

-- chat --
kadoban: Haha, no need to apologize, I dunno if E2 is even bad. I just don't like the feel of it
ldlework: sorry e2 was attrocious
ldlework: lol
carot: Ooh ooh white has to M2 now.
carot: That's worth several points, and sente.
kadoban: M2 is looking largeish
kadoban: What about H4? What does black do?
ldlework: cut
ldlework: J4
ldlework: chase that white thing left and up
ldlework: connect to upper right
ldlework: live on the bottom
ldlework: I'm basically a 9p
kadoban: If J4, I'm thinking J3 and try to make trouble
carot: Whose move?
ldlework: kado
kadoban: Hm, maybe that doesn't work for white
ldlework: M2 J4?
kadoban: Okay, just M2
ldlework: white can crawl around L1 get three more points.. but it is slow endgame move

]
;W[ll]C[

-- chat --
ldlework: carot for black
carot: H8
carot: Because black can't get more than a couple of points on the bottom no matter what they do.  :-(

]
;B[hf]
;W[fl]C[

-- chat --
ldlework: O_O
kadoban: That's probably not bad
ldlework: I regretted it immediately
kadoban: E6 or something for white, try to kill?
ldlework: yeah that's what I was thinking
kadoban: For black I mean
ldlework: yeah, but that means I shoulda went there
ldlework: lol
ldlework: your turn
kadoban: Maybe
kadoban: E6 is good enough. I dunno the right point near there

]
;B[eh]C[

-- chat --
kadoban: H12, see what black wants?
kadoban: White has to live with that thing up there
ldlework: carot you still there?
ldlework: how will white liveo n the top
ldlework: that move is already there
ldlework: in a variation?
ldlework: which one you want
ldlework: no white
ldlework: i think you're desynced
ldlework: no black played E6
ldlework: refresh
carot: OK
carot: C12

]
;W[cb]
;B[dc]C[

-- chat --
ldlework: i hope this is sente
ldlework: lol
carot: That is very sente.
ldlework: kadoban says they can't rejoin for some reason
carot:  Damn!
carot: Let's try a correspondence version of this some time.
ldlework: I am going to get this reviewed by a dan player
ldlework: I'll send it to you when I have it
carot: Thanks!
carot: Later!
illluck: this is a review link
illluck: I think you need to post the original game
ldlework: the game was done as a demo
ldlework: because there was >2 players
illluck: wat
illluck: haha
ldlework: it's adventure go
ldlework: so all the players split into two quques, and when ou play a move for a color, you go to the end of the line for the other color
ldlework: everyone tries to submit the best move they can on their turn
illluck: so how would someone try to review this :p
ldlework: how does it change anything?

]
)(;W[cg]
;B[bg]
;W[dh]
;B[ci]
;W[di]
))(;B[dd]
(;W[ed]
;B[ce]
;W[df]
;B[cf]C[White doesn't gain much here.]
)(;W[ce]
;B[ed]C[This way white also in trouble - not clear which side is being attacked here :p]
)))(;B[de]
;W[hc]
;B[ic]
;W[hd]
;B[kf]C[For example]
))