(;FF[4]
CA[UTF-8]
GM[1]
GN[Becoming 9 kyu - Lesson 10]
PC[https://online-go.com/review/394712]
PB[Black]
PW[White]
BR[2d]
WR[2d]
OT[Error: time control missing]
RE[?]
SZ[19]
KM[6.5]
RU[Japanese]

;B[pd]
(;W[qf]C[Hi! In this lesson we're going to look at attachment joseki based on the 4-4 point.

-- chat --
💖 KoBa 💖: ooh are you gonna go thru the modern variations as well?
mark5000: I'll give it a few more minutes.
mark5000: Yes, hopefully.
Icedrinker: Hello everyone! I am lucky to find it before it started.
mark5000: The lecture is aimed at double digit kyu players, but we can use time at the end to discuss other sequences.
💖 KoBa 💖: great! i'm exited to see whays coming ^__^
Sean R: That announcement certainly helped :p
humblestick: excited too...
snakesss: 1. From move 0: Q16 R14 
mark5000: Haha, yes. We'll start very soon
snakesss: misclick sry - wow 30+ people
Sean R: :p
Stephen Hubbard: Hi
Firebelcher: 18. From move 0: Q16 R14 
]
;B[pf]C[In response to White's approach, this attachment is played occasionally.

-- chat --
Ewen: hello
mark5000: Hello. Thanks so much for joining us.
mark5000: Of course, you can leave when you wish...
simpleTom: Hey, thank you for doing this lectures :)
mark5000: Note: this is a text-based lecture. There's no discord or audio or video or anything.
mark5000: If you're here, you're good.
mark5000: That's all the material I had planned for this lecture.
mark5000: Are there any questions about any part of it, or maybe something not covered that you want to discuss?
mark5000: This lecture will be added to my existing lecture series here: https://forums.online-go.com/t/becoming-9-kyu-a-series-for-beginners/3809
mark5000: Thanks for watching. :)
mark5000: Ok, thank you everyone. Bye for now.
mark5000: Next lecture is hopefully next week around the same time.
]
;W[pg]C[And then White bends here.

-- chat --
Icedrinker: This attachment is bad if there's no Black stones around K16, so far as I know
]
(;B[of]C[Black usually stretches here. These moves form a combination that starts with the attachment. Now White has several options.

-- chat --
mark5000: That's partially true.
mark5000: Other moves are played more, but the difference is not big. Maybe 1 or 2 stones worse than another option.
mark5000: Attaching is for a moyo or influence strategy, as you will see.
Ewen: maybe play r15 instead ?
Ewen: i see this one more often ?
mark5000: Yes, r15 is the other good answer. We'll see it later.
Ewen: oh sorry for spoiling
mark5000: :)
mark5000: Does anyone know the options here?
Ewen: i think white should push
Goldenrod: q10?
Luiskaotsa: R15 I think
mark5000: r15 is one.
Wugabuga: S15
mark5000: Icedrinker, spoiler alert :)
martin3141: r16?
redirodion: can I just play P13?
mark5000: r16 is the other move that's really good.
Icedrinker: I'm sorry xD
mark5000: s15 is kind of special purpose.
AdamR: 3-3 is always an option, right? :D
mark5000: q10... you have to be careful about vital points. r15 is a vital point. You don't want to give Black a big corner and a tiger's mouth shape.
DROmedary: I've never seen humans play S15 but I saw a bot prefer it the other day in review and was surprised
mark5000: r17 is the last possibility. So really 4 choices. And 2 are better than the others.
]
(;W[qe]C[First, this stretch is possible.]
;B[qd]C[In response, Black must protect the corner like this.]
(;W[qj]C[Since White can't attack, White needs to defend herself first.

-- chat --
Icedrinker: This?. From move 0: Q16 R14 Q14 Q13 P14 R15 R16 R10 
]
;B[nd]C[Up to here, it's a basic joseki.]
;W[dp]C[

-- chat --
Luiskaotsa: I think I've seen the same pattern one line higher as well?
]
(;B[og]
;W[ph]C[After the joseki, some people exchange this push. It looks nice, because Black can make his position a bit thicker in sente. It's a bad exchange, however. The push strengthens White, so it isn't good.]
)(;B[qg]C[Even though Black can't cut now, there's still some aji here.]
)(;B[pi]C[Locally, this shoulder hit is a stronger aim.

-- chat --
RyukBaduk: The myth, the legend, he is  mark
]
;W[qi]
;B[ph]
;W[qg]
;B[og]C[You can see that Black can gain more with the shoulder hit than by pushing.]
)(;B[dd]C[You should leave this area as it is for now and tenuki.

-- chat --
mark5000: It's possible.
]
))(;W[pe]C[Some of you might worry about White's push and cut. But it doesn't work well.]
;B[oe]
;W[od]C[

-- chat --
redirodion: I'm worried
Icedrinker: I would be more worried about White here
martin3141: what is the best way to play now?
]
;B[rd]TR[qg]C[That's because stretching here is sente. Because of the marked cutting point, White has to defend somehow.]
;W[qh]C[

-- chat --
martin3141: ah oh sorry
]
;B[nd]C[After that, Black ataris, like this.]
;W[oc]C[If White extends,]
;B[nc]C[Black pushes. White can't rescue her stones. Therefore, White's push and cut is an overplay. So you don't need to worry about the weakness.

-- chat --
mark5000: Friendly reminder, if the moves don't make sense with my text, try hitting the sync button.
Hakmans: Thanks!
]
))(;W[qd]C[This attachment is also possible.

-- chat --
snakesss: i'm thinking some ddks might wonder if this is an even exchange sicne black is so strong and white small and with aji but white approached black's corner and ended the sequence with sente
mark5000: Yeah, it's not quite as good as other joseki options, but sometimes it is.
]
(;B[qc]C[Blocking here is a simple answer.]
;W[qe]C[White has to connect,]
(;B[pc]TR[pe]C[Then Black defends the corner. Compared to the previous joseki, White goes a bit deeper into the corner. So it looks like it's unprofitable for Black. But Black doesn't have to worry about White cutting here anymore.

-- chat --
porygon: oh hi mark
💖 KoBa 💖: white does get a solid position in the side of where he did approach in the first place, so if w plays r14 we could say that w got what he wanted to 
martin3141: I rarely see the attachment though. Is it good for white?
mark5000: It's slightly good for White, in isolation.
humblestick: from a raw beginner why not p p17?
]
(;W[qj]C[

-- chat --
neptix: But it makes a nice wall, if you can combine it, yes?
mark5000: Actually, now is good.
martin3141: I should probably shut up :X
snakesss: so the attachment at r16 means a little bit more of the corner for white but sente for black
]
(;B[nd]C[Because of that, Black won't jump like this after White extends.

-- chat --
martin3141: I think these patterns are popular when white has a stone at o17
]
)(;B[jc]C[To maximize potential, Black should extend around here, or tenuki. White got more territory, but Black also gained a larger framework. This is another joseki.

-- chat --
Wugabuga: Sometimes I see White R9 instead of R10, is it too greedy ?
mark5000: It's a bit greedy, yeah. We'll discuss later.
Wugabuga: Alright
]
))(;W[qk]LB[qi:A]C[If White plays further, it's greedy because Black can play between the stones at A.]
))(;B[oc]LB[rc:A]C[Blocking solidly is better than this tiger's mouth because White gets A in sente and because solid connection already defends the cut well enough.

-- chat --
mark5000: I think I saw this move mentioned earlier?
]
))(;B[qe]C[In response to White's attachment, Black has another option. This wedge is a little worse than blocking, but you still see it sometimes.]
;W[re]C[After White ataris,

-- chat --
RyukBaduk: W k17  
]
;B[pe]C[Black connects here. Black's shape looks bad since it's an empty triangle. White's shape, however, has many weaknesses, so Black isn't too bad. White has three cutting points now. How can we defend all of them at the same time?]
(;W[rd]C[How about connecting here?

-- chat --
Bjondro: s13?
]
;B[qg]C[Then Black will cut,]
;W[rf]
;B[ph]C[And capture White's stone in a ladder. It's a failure for White. So White has to find another move.]
;W[dp]C[

-- chat --
RyukBaduk: 2. From move 0: Q16 R14 Q14 Q13 P14 R16 R15 S15 Q15 S16 R13 S14 Q12 D4 
RyukBaduk: Pow
]
)(;W[rg]C[This double tiger's mouth move is good now. After that, White has resolved two cutting points.

-- chat --
mark5000: :)
mark5000: Yes
]
(;B[rd]C[The only problem is this cutting point. If Black cuts here,]
;W[qc]C[White can stretch.]
;B[rc]C[After this move,]
(;W[pc]C[White turns here.]
;B[oc]C[Black has to prevent White's escape, like this.]
;W[rb]TR[rd]C[Then this bend is enough to capture Black's two stones easily. Therefore, White doesn't need to worry about the cutting point at s16.]
)(;W[rb]
;B[qb]
;W[pc]
;B[oc]
;W[pb]C[

-- chat --
RyukBaduk: 3. From move 0: Q16 R14 Q14 Q13 P14 R16 R15 S15 Q15 S13 S16 R17 S17 S18 R18 Q17 P17 Q18 
]
))(;B[qc]C[Instead, Black has to atari here.]
(;W[rd]
(;B[og]C[After that, it's important for Black to push.]
;W[ph]C[Earlier on, I said that this exchange was bad because it makes White stronger. But it's different now. Since White's group is already safe, this exchange isn't bad anymore.

-- chat --
mark5000: Tenuki wouldn't be good in my opinion. It's a big corner, and it's hard to imagine a tenuki worth that much.
mark5000: You also lose cutting options later.
mark5000: Which we'll see soon.
💖 KoBa 💖: i see i see
]
(;B[rc]C[

-- chat --
Paraparam: Is it good to secure the corner like this or is it better to spend the move elsewhere?. From move 0: Q16 R14 Q14 Q13 P14 R16 R15 S15 Q15 S13 R17 S16 P13 Q12 S17 
]
)(;B[oh]C[Even so, pushing again isn't good.]
;W[oi]C[If White bends here, the right side will become bigger. Black should exchange just one push in this case.]
)(;B[jc]C[After that, Black extends around here or tenukis. This is another joseki, but an older joseki that's fallen out of favor. Blocking at r17 is considered a bit better than wedging in most cases.

-- chat --
neptix: heh, fair enough
]
;W[pc]C[Some of you might worry about this cutting point. But it's not a problem.]
;B[oc]
;W[pb]
(;B[ob]C[You can simply give up this stone. Instead of trying to save the stones, Black should block here.]
;W[qb]C[By capturing a black stone, White gained many points in the corner. White's group, however, was already safe. Therefore, capturing that stone is nothing more than an endgame play. In addition, Black got sente. So it's too early for White to cut and capture the black stone now. But it can be a good choice when there are no other big points left on the board.]
)(;B[qb]C[Blocking here is greedy.]
;W[ob]C[If White turns,]
(;B[nb]TR[nc]C[Black can't hane. Because of the cutting point here, it's impossible.]
)(;B[nc]C[So Black has to extend,

-- chat --
martin3141: this is possible if black is stronger in the middle
]
;W[nb]C[Then White will push here.]
;B[mb]C[

-- chat --
Wugabuga: :)
]
;W[rb]C[If White captures two black stones like this, it's unprofitable for Black.

-- chat --
Wugabuga: If Black is strong around, maybe black could double hane and try to kill x)
martin3141: yes
]
))))(;B[jc]C[If Black doesn't exchange the push,]
;W[og]C[White will push here immediately.]
(;B[ng]C[This hane is tempting,]
;W[nf]TR[pc]C[But there's a cutting point here. And then another cutting point is exposed. So it's hard for Black to hane like this.]
)(;B[nf]C[This stretch is too submissive.]
;AE[nf]
;AE[og]C[

-- chat --
neptix: N13?
mark5000: n13 would be an interesting idea. Generally, however, if a simple move is already good for you, you don't need to think hard about other options.
]
;AE[jc]
;AB[og]C[That's why this exchange is necessary. This is the end of the joseki.]
)))(;W[pp]
;B[rd]C[

-- chat --
💖 KoBa 💖: or tenuki after r17, if ythere is somehing more urgent to play?. From move 0: Q16 R14 Q14 Q13 P14 R16 R15 S15 Q15 S13 R17 Q4 S16 
💖 KoBa 💖: thank you for making this!
]
)))))(;W[re]C[This move is less common, but it was mentioned so we'll go over it briefly.]
;B[qc]C[Black's best reply is usually to block the corner.]
;W[og]
;B[ng]C[Then a pushing battle can begin, starting from this push and hane.]
)(;W[qc]C[Lastly, this corner play was mentioned.]
;B[qe]C[But it's the only move that doesn't stop this tiger's mouth, so it's a bit questionable. Generally one of the two options first discussed at r15 or r16 are the best answers.]
))(;B[qe]C[This move is the other main choice besides stretching at p14. It was invented by Lee Changho 9p in the 1990s, and it's also considered a joseki.

-- chat --
Hakmans: Sure!
]
;W[of]C[White blocks here to block the tiger's mouth shape and induce Black into making an empty triangle.]
;B[pe]C[This wasn't really played before the 1990s because Japanese professionals were very interested in Go as an art form and generally opposed to making crude shapes like this. That changed with the rise of Go as a mindsport in Korea, and when Lee Changho started playing it and winning games with it, it came to be known as a legitimate joseki option.

Now, White has many choices. The best ones in most cases will be (1) tenuki, (2) descend to s14, or (3) connect at p13 (intending to sacrifice r14 if cut).]
(;W[rf]C[If White descends,]
;B[og]C[Cutting is obvious, and]
;W[ph]C[White can stretch here.

-- chat --
martin3141: what about r13? That would seem natural to me.
]
;B[nf]
;W[ql]C[This kind of pattern would be acceptable to both players.]
)(;W[og]C[If White connects here,]
;B[qg]
;W[qh]
;B[rg]
;W[rh]
;B[rf]
;W[pl]C[This pattern would result.]
)(;W[qg]C[Blocking here is also common, but it's maybe less good than descending.]
;B[og]C[That's because when Black cuts here, stretching to q12 isn't good anymore, and White lost access to the corner in the endgame.]
;W[oh]C[So White can choose to atari here,]
;B[ng]C[Then White has a shape defect at q12.]
;W[pi]C[If White fixes,]
;B[qk]C[Black can take the extension point. That's why I don't prefer it to the other more common choices. But it's just a preference. Maybe you find you like it, or find another pattern that works better for you.

-- chat --
martin3141: after the black attachment, I heard that white can go into the corner immediately
neptix: Thanks for the lectures!
]
)))(;AB[pj]
;AB[pp]
;AB[dd]
;AB[dj]
;AB[dp]
;W[nc]
;B[nd]
;W[md]
;B[ne]C[

-- chat --
💖 KoBa 💖: it's pretty good move espesially in handicap games. From move 0: Q16 Q10 Q4 D16 D10 D4 O17 O16 N16 O15 
]
))