Becoming 9 kyu - Lesson 18

Move 1

Black[2d]

0 captures

White[2d]

0 captures

+ 6.5

Unranked

Rules: Japanese

Review by: ...

Move 0 + 1

July 27, 2019

[15:07] orplus[6k]: hi

[15:07] Noobrunswick[1d]: Sure are a lot of them!

[15:07] orplus[6k]: nice

[15:08] orplus[6k]: ok

[15:08] mark5000[7d]: Yes, we'll start with basic ones.

[15:08] hspinat[8k]: hi

[15:08] mark5000[7d]: This lesson is all text. No audio or video stream.

Move 0 + 14

[15:19] CalabiYau[5k]: hi thanks Mark

[15:20] mark5000[7d]: You're welcome.

Move 0 + 8

[15:23] mark5000[7d]: Any guesses?

[15:23] opuss[7k]: O15

[15:24] pulentoshorizo[5k]: o15

[15:24] Klandis[5k]: L16.

[15:24] orplus[6k]: l17

[15:24] summersiderobin[5k]: Hi

[15:24] mark5000[7d]: Hi!

[15:24] Klandis[5k]: M18

[15:24] summersiderobin[5k]: O15

[15:25] CalabiYau[5k]: M17 ?

Move 0 + 9

[15:25] Shekomaru[7k]: L17?

Move 0 + 10

[15:28] AlexGarcia13[5k]: L18

Move 0 + 13

[15:30] wtp003[1d]: Variation: K16 better than L16?

Move 0 + 12

[15:31] wtp003[1d]: J18

Move 0 + 7

[15:33] Icedrinker[4k]: Hello ladies and gentlemen

Move 0 + 9

[15:33] hspinat[7k]: i was gonna say M17 too

Move 0 + 10

[15:36] キツネ囲碁[4d]: does m17 not work if there's no g17 stone?

[15:37] mark5000[7d]: m17 works without a g17 stone.

[15:37] bugcat[1k]: Hey mark

[15:37] mark5000[7d]: o/

Move 0 + 11

[15:37] Icedrinker[4k]: hello bugcat

Move 0 + 10

[15:37] hspinat[7k]: hi

Move 0 + 11

[15:38] Icedrinker[4k]: How did I get past 9 kyu without this :D

Move 0 + 10

[15:38] AlexGarcia13[5k]: L18

Move 0 + 10

[15:38] bugcat[1k]: What have we covered?

Move 0 + 9

[15:39] bugcat[1k]: Eh, I'll let you get on with it

Move 0 + 10

[15:39] wtp003[1d]: Variation: Maybe Black should play somewhere else

[15:39] Icedrinker[4k]: hello opuss

Move 0 + 11

[15:39] summersiderobin[5k]: Great explanation of the joseki. When will you cover the invasion?

Move 0 + 8

[15:39] bugcat[1k]: But throw a 5-4 joseki in at some point eh

[15:39] unjax[4k]: Bug we're looking at common 3-4 approaches, starting with q16

[15:40] mark5000[7d]: Ha, what is "the" invasion?

Move 0 + 1

[15:40] opuss[7k]: How does the state of the D16 corner influence the choice of variation?

Move 0 + 11

[15:41] summersiderobin[5k]: K17 orK16 - I always seem to get this wrong!

[15:41] mark5000[7d]: opuss, it doesn't.

Move 0 + 8

[15:41] mark5000[7d]: For kyu players anyway.

Move 0 + 7

[15:42] opuss[7k]: So the choice of tiger's mouth over the solid connection doesn't depend on who has a stone at D16?

[15:42] mark5000[7d]: If there is a Black stone here, White can choose a normal joseki

Move 0 + 7

[15:43] キツネ囲碁[4d]: if there's a d16 stone then you enter the probe-town

[15:43] mark5000[7d]: If there's a White stone here, White can choose a further extension to also enclose the corner as a dual purpose.

Move 0 + 10

[15:43] opuss[7k]: OK. Thanks.

Move 0 + 10

[15:43] mark5000[7d]: That's the main difference.

[15:44] mark5000[7d]: If you can get this far, you are already doing better than most DDK players.

[15:44] mark5000[7d]: That's all I had planned for today. I have more 3-4 joseki for next week.

[15:45] キツネ囲碁[4d]: ddks seem to get o15 peep wrong often, was this covered?

[15:45] Hexel[13k]: You've shown us the connect and the tiger's mouth variations. Could you talk a bit about why to choose tiger's mouth if it has that weakness? the connection seems much stronger

[15:45] mark5000[7d]: I can answer questions about anything though.

Move 0 + 10

[15:45] Alprunner[10k]: Thanks!

Move 0 + 10

[15:45] キツネ囲碁[4d]: I've seen people play o15 o16

[15:45] mark5000[7d]: Oh, peep

Move 0 + 9

[15:45] mark5000[7d]: I mentioned here that this peep was bad timing.

[15:45] opuss[7k]: How about the peep instead of R14?

[15:46] mark5000[7d]: White has j17 in place, so the group is already stable. White can ignore it because of that.

[15:46] opuss[7k]: then follow it up with Q14.

[15:46] mark5000[7d]: The peep is a good move but should come earlier.

Move 0 + 6

[15:46] キツネ囲碁[4d]: doesn't ignoring the peep change the m17 variations?

Move 0 + 7

[15:46] mark5000[7d]: Yes of course.

Move 0 + 10

[15:47] mark5000[7d]: Here, if White ignores Black's peep, Black could play m17 and the result would be different, but cutting is a more obvious and severe follow up.

Move 0 + 12

[15:48] mark5000[7d]: Maybe like this.

Move 0 + 5

[15:49] mark5000[7d]: Hexel asked why play n16 is there's a weakness.

[15:49] mark5000[7d]: Good question.

[15:49] mark5000[7d]: Indeed, most strong AI prefer o16 to n16.

[15:50] mark5000[7d]: The traditional answer is that n16 better supports a further extension.

Move 0 + 8

[15:50] キツネ囲碁[4d]: Variation: 17

Move 0 + 8

[15:50] opuss[7k]: Is it safe for either player to tenuki during the joseki?

[15:50] mark5000[7d]: j17 versus k16 or k17

[15:51] Hexel[13k]: ok, thanks!

[15:51] mark5000[7d]: Modernly, we've learned that taking sente can be more valuable than either extension, so these extensions are frequently delayed.

Move 0 + 7

[15:51] キツネ囲碁[4d]: on asian servers they often omit r14, so it's good to cover the continuation for white I guess

[15:51] mark5000[7d]: In that case, the tiger's mouth has something that looks like eye shape.

[15:51] キツネ囲碁[4d]: at low ranks that is

Move 0 + 6

[15:52] mark5000[7d]: I covered it.

Move 0 + 9

[15:52] opuss[7k]: OK. I have seen players tenuki sometimes.

Move 0 + 16

[15:53] mark5000[7d]: If your opponent does not jump, follow up with attachment.

[15:53] opuss[7k]: and if white tenukis instead of the final extension?

Move 0 + 9

[15:53] opuss[7k]: yes

Move 0 + 10

[15:54] mark5000[7d]: Jump out.

[15:54] opuss[7k]: ok

[15:54] mark5000[7d]: There's not enough space along the side to settle the stones, so jumping is the reasonable plan.

[15:55] mark5000[7d]: This is just as strong as the joseki, and modern players actually prefer it.

[15:55] mark5000[7d]: But it's not considered joseki because it's not a locally stable position. White is running, and White decided this was acceptable in return for a big move elsewhere.

[15:56] mark5000[7d]: For kyu players, I recommend spending the extra move and settling.

[15:56] mark5000[7d]: Other questions?

Move 0 + 3

[15:58] CalabiYau[5k]: At the beginning of the joseki is Q17 bad ?

[15:58] CalabiYau[5k]: for white

[15:58] CalabiYau[5k]: after black P17

Move 0 + 11

[15:58] summersiderobin[5k]: What is the correct response to K17 after the invasion?

Move 0 + 4

[15:58] mark5000[7d]: Yes, cutting here is impossible.

[15:59] mark5000[7d]: It's an overplay.

Move 0 + 6

[15:59] mark5000[7d]: White ataris here

Move 0 + 8

[16:00] mark5000[7d]: After the connection, Black owes a move to save two stones and capture one.

Move 0 + 9

[16:00] mark5000[7d]: This is good for Black. All White has done is giving a stone to Black.

Move 0 + 9

[16:01] キツネ囲碁[4d]: Variation: this is an old joseki, it's the same but you make this bad exchange

Move 0 + 11

[16:01] CalabiYau[5k]: I see thanks a lot !

[16:01] mark5000[7d]: Next question was about this

[16:02] mark5000[7d]: Continuations are a more advanced topic, but I'll talk a little about it.

Move 0 + 12

[16:02] summersiderobin[5k]: Thanks

Move 0 + 1

[16:05] mark5000[7d]: Thanks for watching everyone!

[16:05] mark5000[7d]: That's all I have for today.

[16:05] opuss[7k]: Thanks for the lesson.

[16:05] oldzephyr2000[5k]: Thanks very much!

[16:05] mark5000[7d]: Next lesson will be an opening lesson

[16:05] mark5000[7d]: Find my whole series here: becoming 9-kyu-a-series-for-beginners

[16:06] mark5000[7d]: I give public lessons on weekends at unspecified times of day. Sorry about that. But you can always read them after the fact.

[16:06] mark5000[7d]: See you next time!

[16:06] hspinat[7k]: thx for the lesson

[16:07] CalabiYau[5k]: thanks a lot

[16:08] orplus[6k]: thanks

December 14, 2020

[22:45] AltF4[2k]: Variation: 18