Becoming 9 Kyu - Lesson 44

Move 10

Black[2d]

0 captures

White[2d]

0 captures

+ 6.5

Unranked

Rules: Japanese

Review by: ...

Move 0 + 10

February 22, 2020

[18:55] prosody[3k]: Hi!

[18:55] applebaps[9k]: hello~

[18:55] chel[6k]: hi

[18:55] mark5000[7d]: Hello

[18:55] manfred.georg[5k]: hi

[18:56] MoonyBird[5k]: hi

[18:56] mark5000[7d]: This lesson is text-based. It's part of my lesson series becoming 9-kyu-a-series-for-beginners

Move 0

[18:57] windway[8k]: Nice! thank you

Move 0 + 10

[18:58] mark5000[7d]: Normally these lessons are 3 hours earlier than now. But I've been too busy to keep the regular time recently.

Move 0 + 15

[19:01] cleinias[11k]: hi

Move 0 + 13

[19:04] mark5000[7d]: Any ideas? Sacrifice strategies?

[19:04] spungy boby 123[3d]: n3

[19:04] cleinias[11k]: O3

[19:04] pfpirlet[5k]: L4 ?

[19:04] matrimsaric[10k]: h4

[19:04] Dietrichstein[7k]: L8

[19:04] prosody[3k]: I would go for N3, threaten the cut and maybe it's a dream sequence but hope for the nice eyeshape with M4 and L3

[19:05] snakesss[1k]: there is n2, but is it good right now?

[19:05] Etyllr[?]: hello im french sorry im débutante

[19:05] snakesss[1k]: i doubt it

[19:05] applebaps[9k]: why not cap with H6, then when black cuts, lean on the large knight's move to the right?

[19:05] tpnZbonek[2k]: hello mark

[19:05] mark5000[7d]: I'm excited to see so many great ideas!

[19:06] tpnZbonek[2k]: L3 makes good shape and it is good for atack left or right

[19:06] mark5000[7d]: Let's look at the wrong answers first.

[19:06] spungy boby 123[3d]: n2 maybe

Move 0 + 14

[19:07] Anthe[10k]: l3 is a good shape move ?!

[19:07] mark5000[7d]: First, this "armpit" hit is close, but not quite right.

Move 0 + 19

[19:07] mark5000[7d]: Black could move out like this, and the three stones got weaker.

[19:07] tpnZbonek[2k]: ok sorry i can see the topic of this lesson is something else..

Move 0 + 19

[19:08] mark5000[7d]: Besides that, just covering works, since Black has more liberties and will win a capture race

Move 0 + 14

[19:09] mark5000[7d]: This move fixes the weaknesses. It's also crude and ugly looking.

[19:09] mark5000[7d]: Try to avoid moves that do only one thing.

[19:09] prosody[3k]: you can be kikashi'd into a B2 bomber too

[19:09] mark5000[7d]: Yes, it's not a good shape. It's corruptible.

Move 0 + 14

[19:10] mark5000[7d]: This wedge is interesting at first glance.

Move 0 + 16

[19:10] mark5000[7d]: But if Black just ataris, White just gave up sente without improving the shape.

[19:11] mark5000[7d]: Be careful about this.

Move 0 + 14

[19:11] mark5000[7d]: This jump is the best suggestion yet.

[19:12] mark5000[7d]: It moves into the center and improves the shape.

[19:12] mark5000[7d]: But it's still not best, and it's not a sacrifice strategy we're looking for

[19:12] BluesBells[7k]: O5?

Move 0 + 13

[19:12] tpnZbonek[2k]: what about peep at Q3 and then attack stone at M3?

Move 0 + 14

[19:12] Archelao5[8k]: J6?

[19:12] windway[8k]: M2?

[19:12] TagataSan[4k]: m2?

[19:12] mark5000[7d]: This attachment is also a good idea, but not right for the same reasons.

Move 0 + 17

[19:13] mark5000[7d]: Black gets stronger, and White didn't improve the shape much.

[19:13] applebaps[9k]: hm! interesting

[19:13] prosody[3k]: sacrifice the three stones and take one of the top corners

[19:13] tpnZbonek[2k]: :d

[19:13] mark5000[7d]: Making shape is not easy sometimes.

Move 0 + 14

[19:13] snakesss[1k]: lol pro

Move 0 + 15

[19:13] tpnZbonek[2k]: well if we want just make a good shape i suggest L3 but seems slow to me in this situation

[19:14] mark5000[7d]: O5 helps Black secure territory.

[19:14] mark5000[7d]: But actually it benefits White too. Still not best.

Move 0 + 19

[19:14] snakesss[1k]: if you want a table shape, n3 might induce it

[19:15] snakesss[1k]: no need to bump

Move 0 + 15

[19:15] xhu98[9d]: came in right before the ultimate tesuji :)

Move 0 + 19

[19:16] mark5000[7d]: :)

Move 0 + 19

[19:17] mark5000[7d]: If players rated 10k+ find the N3 move, they will always stop reading here.

[19:17] mark5000[7d]: That makes me sad.

[19:17] mark5000[7d]: You will conclude that N3 is bad, and then you'll play L8 or O5 or something like that.

[19:18] matrimsaric[10k]: drop to n2 then black drops to l2 and white can fill l3?

Move 0 + 18

[19:19] prosody[3k]: white n2 black m2 white l2

Move 0 + 22

[19:19] matrimsaric[10k]: nice

Move 0 + 15

[19:23] kissmecomix[10k]: Variation: 1

Move 0 + 17

[19:23] Aselan[2k]: P18

[19:24] Dietrichstein[7k]: O15

[19:24] mark5000[7d]: Black to make shape. Assume Black isn't strong enough to cut.

[19:24] cleinias[11k]: o17

[19:24] MoonyBird[5k]: 015?

Move 0 + 15

[19:24] kissmecomix[10k]: q18 is beter

Move 0 + 16

[19:24] nieutseucheu[14k]: q18

[19:24] BluesBells[7k]: What speaks against O17

Move 0 + 17

[19:24] tpnZbonek[2k]: if you Q18 white will P17 and poke eye..

Move 0 + 16

[19:25] applebaps[9k]: B O17, W P17, B Q17, P18, B Q18?

[19:25] Legault[1d]: tenuki, black is alive locally

[19:25] Legault[1d]: :^)

[19:25] mark5000[7d]: Last time a 2k found the answer immediately. I imagine our 2k+ spectators have found the move, here too ;)

[19:25] mark5000[7d]: But this lesson is for 10k+ players >_>

[19:26] xaphan2019[9k]: P19

[19:26] xaphan2019[9k]: i mean 18

[19:26] Aselan[2k]: Puh

[19:26] Aselan[2k]: Good

[19:26] Aselan[2k]: I had p18

[19:26] igsNomad[3d]: That is why we stay silent =^.^=

[19:26] Aselan[2k]: P19 would have shocked me

Move 0 + 17

[19:26] tpnZbonek[2k]: O18

Move 0 + 22

[19:26] tpnZbonek[2k]: Variation: 2

Move 0 + 17

[19:26] McStrauss[6k]: why not O17?

Move 0 + 18

[19:27] xaphan2019[9k]: 017 ruins influence and keeps you enclosed

Move 0 + 22

[19:27] tpnZbonek[2k]: you can keep continue to the left side territory like this

Move 0 + 19

[19:27] applebaps[9k]: Why not just N16 after the double hane?

Move 0 + 22

[19:27] kissmecomix[10k]: o17i s too far to help

[19:28] Aselan[2k]: I dont get it can you show aboce?

Move 0 + 17

[19:29] xaphan2019[9k]: every variation of 017 will enclose black by the looks of it

Move 0 + 19

[19:29] tpnZbonek[2k]: thats why i am into O18 -_-

[19:29] mark5000[7d]: applebaps asked why not here after the double hane

Move 0 + 21

[19:30] mark5000[7d]: It doesn't really change anything

[19:30] mark5000[7d]: White will still play out the same variation, and Black is caught in a ladder.

[19:30] applebaps[9k]: i was thinking of an atari after W connects, rather than an extension

Move 0 + 21

[19:30] applebaps[9k]: like, say, N18 or M17

[19:30] applebaps[9k]: break through to the side

[19:30] tpnZbonek[2k]: he can double atari then

Move 0 + 17

[19:30] xaphan2019[9k]: double hane would create more aji for white, may not be much, but if it stays until end game; it could result in ko threats and point deduction later on

Move 0 + 22

[19:30] mark5000[7d]: ???

[19:31] mark5000[7d]: Brave to give White this

[19:31] snakesss[1k]: huh, i thought cut and extend was almost always good after doublehane

Move 0 + 22

[19:31] mark5000[7d]: Black would collapse

[19:31] Kawabata[3k]: Hello nice people

Move 0 + 17

[19:31] xaphan2019[9k]: i think the pint Mark is trying to make here, is that why create problems in shape?

Move 0 + 22

[19:31] applebaps[9k]: i see

Move 0 + 19

[19:32] tpnZbonek[2k]: i was tellin M18 by i meant O18 -_-

[19:32] xaphan2019[9k]: i feel like im a much smarter go player when watching than playing lol

Move 0 + 24

[19:33] kissmecomix[10k]: that is why q18 is good you make shape

Move 0 + 22

[19:33] xaphan2019[9k]: this still ultimately encloses black though, yes?

[19:33] mark5000[7d]: Yes

Move 0 + 17

[19:33] xaphan2019[9k]: yeah, i get it Mark; XD

Move 0 + 21

[19:34] Dietrichstein[7k]: This is all defense, maybe immediately go on the attack O15?

[19:34] applebaps[9k]: he'd said assume B isn't strong enough to cut

[19:35] Aselan[2k]: Cool

Move 0 + 16

[19:35] Legault[1d]: If black tenukis the o17 wedge, is the fiercest move for white q18 wedge?

[19:35] Kawabata[3k]: o18? isn't it better?

[19:35] mark5000[7d]: In this case, there's a sharp move. And only one player found it.

[19:35] xaphan2019[9k]: was the same result safly

[19:35] xaphan2019[9k]: he just showed

Move 0 + 17

[19:35] xaphan2019[9k]: oh, i thought u said p18 my bad lol

Move 0 + 21

[19:36] tpnZbonek[2k]: for W sharp move?

Move 0 + 19

[19:36] xaphan2019[9k]: love this shape XD

[19:36] xaphan2019[9k]: that stone can only run one way now

Move 0 + 19

[19:37] Dietrichstein[7k]: shine!

Move 0 + 20

[19:37] kissmecomix[10k]: Variation: 3

Move 0 + 18

[19:38] tpnZbonek[2k]: ah ok

Move 0 + 20

[19:38] kissmecomix[10k]: what is keeping white from taking the 2 stones?

Move 0 + 20

[19:39] prosody[3k]: that it's black's turn mostly

Move 0 + 24

[19:40] Kawabata[3k]: Is cut available now?

[19:41] tpnZbonek[2k]: kawabata i guess if B is stron on the top left, otherwise its unreasonable

[19:41] Kawabata[3k]: Ok ty

[19:41] tpnZbonek[2k]: thanks mark

[19:41] mark5000[7d]: Any questions? I saw a lot of discussion here.

[19:41] Legault[1d]: Yes

[19:41] Kawabata[3k]: Thanks for the lesson

[19:41] xaphan2019[9k]: something happened to the lecture and ibecame lost on how black needed to play p18 after the connnection to n18

[19:41] Legault[1d]: In the position, where black has the o17 wedge

[19:41] prosody[3k]: thank you!

[19:41] Aselan[2k]: Ty

Move 0 + 23

[19:41] Dietrichstein[7k]: thanks

Move 0 + 20

[19:42] snakesss[1k]: you should show what happens if white atari and connect, since this is ddk-aimed

Move 0 + 24

[19:42] matrimsaric[10k]: i suppose white can use p18 to firce black ingo alob

Move 0 + 19

[19:42] cleinias[11k]: Thanks Mark! Mostly over my head but I still learned a lot. And it was fun

Move 0 + 19

[19:42] xaphan2019[9k]: yeah

Move 0 + 21

[19:42] xaphan2019[9k]: thanks

[19:42] Legault[1d]: If black tenukis, is the strongest attack by white q18?

Move 0 + 22

[19:42] Legault[1d]: As in, black doesn't play the wedge

[19:42] applebaps[9k]: thank you for the lesson and your time! i do have a question: is there a simple way to think about the valuation of a sacrifice play or to know when one is necessary versus a more fundamental strategy? i.e. when is it better to aim for shape directly versus throwing away stones?

Move 0 + 24

[19:42] matrimsaric[10k]: ta for the lesson

Move 0 + 22

[19:43] applebaps[9k]: or does it all just come down to reading

[19:43] konradiking78[15k]: thanks

[19:43] mark5000[7d]: This is a locally settled position.

[19:43] Legault[1d]: Yes, I realise that

[19:43] Legault[1d]: I mean if black does not play the o17 wedge

Move 0 + 18

[19:44] mark5000[7d]: Oh, this

Move 0 + 18

[19:44] xaphan2019[9k]: so why must black play 018 after the n18 attachment?