Becoming 9 Kyu - Lesson 46

Move 2

Black[2d]

0 captures

White[2d]

0 captures

+ 6.5

Unranked

Rules: Japanese

Review by: mark5000[5d]

Move 0 + 1

March 7, 2020

[21:00] Sir Clacksalot[4k]: ooo is this the beginning?

[21:00] rhasta[6k]: yep

[21:00] Sir Clacksalot[4k]: :D

[21:00] Sir Clacksalot[4k]: !!!

[21:00] KiltedNinja[5k]: looking forward to the lesson - thanks Mark!

[21:01] mark5000[7d]: Thanks for watching!

Move 0 + 2

[21:01] Sir Clacksalot[4k]: I just lost my game in the panda nets and i r sad

[21:01] rhasta[6k]: hello ty for knowledge

Move 0 + 11

[21:04] G-Slayer[9k]: thank you Mark ...

Move 0 + 7

[21:05] KiltedNinja[5k]: O15?

[21:05] rhasta[6k]: Variation: o17?

[21:05] Sir Clacksalot[4k]: bamboo?

[21:06] rhasta[6k]: ops wrong chat window sorry

[21:06] rhasta[6k]: O17?

Move 0 + 8

[21:06] rhasta[6k]: yeee

[21:06] rhasta[6k]: $*!%

[21:06] rhasta[6k]: T_T

Move 0 + 8

[21:07] Sir Clacksalot[4k]: its seems either connect and make bad shape or bamboo

Move 0 + 7

[21:07] KiltedNinja[5k]: O14 table maybe?

Move 0 + 8

[21:07] Sir Clacksalot[4k]: table too yep

Move 0 + 12

[21:08] Sir Clacksalot[4k]: I think you stumped us

[21:09] mark5000[7d]: :)

Move 0 + 8

[21:09] rhasta[6k]: whaaat

[21:09] Sir Clacksalot[4k]: not on my radar

Move 0 + 12

[21:10] G-Slayer[9k]: that's cool

Move 0 + 9

[21:10] rhasta[6k]: ive never made that shape before

Move 0 + 5

[21:12] Sir Clacksalot[4k]: I've seen that shape in opening theory made easy, used for reducing a moyo, the author referred to it as "skipping away lightly"

[21:12] mark5000[7d]: Yes :) Hideo Otake knows his stuff.

[21:13] Wong Kar-Wai[4k]: When did you guys start?

Move 0 + 7

[21:14] rhasta[6k]: 13 minutes ago

[21:14] Sir Clacksalot[4k]: my instinct says shoulder hit it

[21:14] Sir Clacksalot[4k]: white p17

[21:14] Sir Clacksalot[4k]: or 017 rather

Move 0 + 6

[21:16] G-Slayer[9k]: but this reduces the points in the corner

Move 0 + 7

[21:16] Sir Clacksalot[4k]: I guess the shoulder hit results in the same push and cut defect as the last example

Move 0 + 8

[21:17] Wong Kar-Wai[4k]: Is this considered a balanced outcome? Seems better for black...

[21:17] N-Gon[9k]: why extend there specifically?

Move 0 + 8

[21:17] rhasta[6k]: 4 space jump with 1 stone, 5 space with 2 stones

[21:18] N-Gon[9k]: never heard that

[21:18] Sir Clacksalot[4k]: its as far as you can get away with without being disconnected

[21:18] N-Gon[9k]: thanks

[21:18] neptix[4k]: In isolation, it looks better for black, but it really depends on what else is on the board

Move 0 + 10

[21:19] Wong Kar-Wai[4k]: neptix, assumption is black's 3-4 facing his 4-4. That's a YUGE, BIGLY top for Black.

Move 0 + 8

[21:19] neptix[4k]: it is, which is why that would make this a poor joseki to choose in that situation

Move 0 + 8

[21:19] Wong Kar-Wai[4k]: okay, thanks

[21:20] Wong Kar-Wai[4k]: that makes sense

Move 0 + 10

[21:20] neptix[4k]: as opposed to, say, white having the d16 corner

[21:20] rhasta[6k]: sorry when i said 4 space jump i meant 2 spaces and 3 spaces for 2 stone wall

[21:21] Wong Kar-Wai[4k]: Wouldn't black's follow-up to white's extension be around K17?

[21:21] mark5000[7d]: Correct

Move 0 + 8

[21:21] Wong Kar-Wai[4k]: Thanks mark!

[21:21] rhasta[6k]: instead of o16?

Move 0 + 12

[21:29] mister10[8k]: Is there any sound available?!

[21:30] mark5000[7d]: Text only. Sorry about that.

[21:30] mister10[8k]: No problem Sir

Move 0 + 11

[21:37] mark5000[7d]: That's all the material I prepared for today's lesson. Any questions about these 3-3 josekis?

[21:37] rhasta[6k]: 🤔 when is your next lesson?

[21:37] KiltedNinja[5k]: thanks mark :)

[21:37] mark5000[7d]: I give these lessons on Saturdays.

[21:37] mark5000[7d]: Normally it's at 8:00am PST, five hours ago.

[21:37] Xaloc[4d]: Thanks.. I was a little bit late and will check later the whole lesson

[21:38] mark5000[7d]: But I have a new baby, and it's hard to make a consistent time.

[21:38] rhasta[6k]: how do i access the lessons if i miss them?

[21:38] Sir Clacksalot[4k]: is shoulder hitting the only good way to approach a 3,3 stone these days?

[21:38] rhasta[6k]: congratulations XD

[21:38] mark5000[7d]: Find all past lessons at becoming 9-kyu-a-series-for-beginners

[21:38] wooolf[8k]: congrats!

[21:38] Xaloc[4d]: Congratz!

Move 0 + 9

[21:38] iotaaaaa[2k]: ah yeah grats! thanks for the lesson

Move 0 + 11

[21:38] KiltedNinja[5k]: yeah congrats and good luck!

Move 0 + 9

[21:39] iotaaaaa[2k]: Variation: one question: after tenuki from here, will white just treat the two stones lightly if black cuts? how would we clean it up when it becomes big to do so?

[21:40] mark5000[7d]: That's a good question.

[21:41] mark5000[7d]: As I mentioned, if it's big enough for White to continue, White will usually take O17. That's a big point that stood out to many of you before I showed the variations. It just wasn't a good idea when there was a cutting weakness.

[21:41] iotaaaaa[2k]: ah right, that way works, gotcha

[21:42] rhasta[6k]: thank you mark

[21:43] KiltedNinja[5k]: thanks again o/

Move 0 + 17

[21:45] iotaaaaa[2k]: right, i figured. i assume white would either tenuki, or force the capture

[21:45] mark5000[7d]: Can anyone find a good forcing move to exploit the ladder aji here?

[21:46] ekunyas[5k]: Q13?

[21:46] ekunyas[5k]: hm nope

Move 0 + 19

[21:47] iotaaaaa[2k]: maybe q12. i feel a bit concerned about m13 though.

Move 0 + 17

[21:48] mark5000[7d]: Q12 is good

[21:48] mark5000[7d]: Maybe as good as the move I'm thinking of.

Move 0 + 18

[21:49] iotaaaaa[2k]: oh ic, thanks. this feels happier if n13 gets cut i guess

Move 0 + 19

[21:49] iotaaaaa[2k]: ah, i mean if he cuts later, presuming white doesn't fix. but i guess, white will fix now :P

Move 0 + 20

[21:50] mark5000[7d]: So this is how a Black continuation might go.

[21:50] mark5000[7d]: Although Black usually won't cut like this, since White can parry it in most cases as shown.

Move 0 + 11

[21:50] iotaaaaa[2k]: right, still, thanks for showing some variations!

[21:50] mark5000[7d]: I'd expect Black to just jump here if Black continues.

[21:51] mark5000[7d]: You're welcome.

[21:51] mark5000[7d]: It's more for your level. These josekis are for beginners. Continuing after the josekis is an SDK topic.

[21:52] mark5000[7d]: Any other questions?

Move 0 + 1

[21:52] iotaaaaa[2k]: hehe >w< suppose that's true. i'm only just breaching into it though, hence the curiosity. not from me, at least, thanks again!

[21:52] ekunyas[5k]: is 3x3 played at all in the age of AI?

[21:53] ekunyas[5k]: haven't seen alot in games on youtube

[21:53] ekunyas[5k]: any fusekis that work with it?

[21:53] mark5000[7d]: Yes. But it's less common than 4-4 and 3-4 points.

[21:54] ekunyas[5k]: so if you play it can you be more aggressive on other parts of the board?

[21:54] mark5000[7d]: For example, KataGo will usually rate a 3-3 point as 0.2 points worse than a 4-4 or 3-4 point.

[21:54] mark5000[7d]: But that difference is so trivial. And there's no such thing as winning or losing a game by 0.2 points.

[21:54] mark5000[7d]: So for beginners, it's basically even

[21:54] ekunyas[5k]: okay, thanks

[21:55] mark5000[7d]: Even for SDK and dan.

[21:55] ekunyas[5k]: last question

Move 0 + 2

[21:55] ekunyas[5k]: When you played it, what is the game you want to be playing?

Move 0 + 3

[21:56] mark5000[7d]: 3-3 is a territorial move. So play it when you want to play a territorial game.

[21:56] mark5000[7d]: You can also use it for psychology.

[21:57] mark5000[7d]: If you know that your opponent is a territorial player, then you can force them to take influence and play out of their preferred style.

[21:57] ekunyas[5k]: makes sense

[21:58] mark5000[7d]: This is the human element of Go. If you're playing a bot, the bot won't give a $*!% and you'd probably better stick to 4-4 and 3-4 points unless you want practice in 3-3 patterns.

[21:59] mark5000[7d]: 4-4 points and 3-4 points are generally better, if only by a little bit. That's why I had 11 lessons on those moves and only one so far for 3-3 points.

[22:00] mark5000[7d]: Thanks for watching everyone! See you next Saturday.

Move 0 + 7

[22:00] ekunyas[5k]: Thanks!

Move 0 + 3

[22:00] iotaaaaa[2k]: ^^

[22:00] mark5000[7d]: Check out past lessons at becoming 9-kyu-a-series-for-beginners

[22:00] motching[8k]: thank you Mark!