Game Finished

Move 54

saxmaam[8k]

0 captures

Levvo[2d]

0 captures

+ 6.5

Unranked

Rules: Japanese

W+15.5

Q18P3Q11C17D12E12

Win %

Score

White wins by Resignation

Move 0

July 28, 2015

[12:53] saxmaam[14k]: Ahoy, Levvo! Hope you've got your parrot on your shoulder, cuz I've got mine. Well, he's in the room, anyway

Move 1

[18:20] Levvo[1k]: omg I so want a parrot!

[18:20] Levvo[1k]: hmm ok. What should we do this time =)

Move 2

[18:22] saxmaam[14k]: well, I think that playing in an empty corner will be more profitable than playing in UR

Move 3

[18:22] saxmaam[14k]: and since you may come down the right side, I'll set my sites on the lower side

Move 6

[18:27] Levvo[1k]: so far so good =)

[18:27] Levvo[1k]: And it's good that you're taking time to think! ^^

[18:28] Levvo[1k]: How you decide on a move is nice info for me.

[18:28] Levvo[1k]: And maybe 2-3 other possibilities

[18:28] Levvo[1k]: that you considered

[18:59] saxmaam[14k]: Variation: possible

[18:59] saxmaam[14k]: Variation: better

[18:59] saxmaam[14k]: Variation: seems reasonable

[19:00] saxmaam[14k]: Variation: but W would probably do this instead

[19:00] saxmaam[14k]: So I have a question about that last variation. is it a good thing to hope for or not?

[19:01] saxmaam[14k]: will I be able to take advantage of that wall?

[19:01] saxmaam[14k]: should I get it?

Move 7

[19:07] Levvo[1k]: hmmm

[19:08] Levvo[1k]: Variation: Common variation

[19:09] Levvo[1k]: Variation: White will cut

[19:09] Levvo[1k]: Variation: dangerous!

Move 8

[19:13] saxmaam[14k]: aw, this stinks

Move 10

[21:17] Levvo[1k]: hmm so

Move 12

[21:18] saxmaam[14k]: just looks like I haven't done a good job in that corner

[21:18] Levvo[1k]: well you are one move behind

[21:18] Levvo[1k]: which is good to cosider.

[21:18] Levvo[1k]: consider*

[21:19] Levvo[1k]: Maybe you can answer Q18 differently?

[21:19] saxmaam[14k]: Variation: I thought about this

Move 13

[21:36] Levvo[1k]: yea not too bad

[21:37] Levvo[1k]: I would consider the hane too.

[21:37] Levvo[1k]: but your move isn't totally bad

Move 14

[21:37] Levvo[1k]: this however

[21:37] Levvo[1k]: is unfortunate

[21:39] saxmaam[14k]: can we go back and try the other variation?

[21:39] saxmaam[14k]: using undo?

[21:40] Levvo[1k]: sure

[21:40] Levvo[1k]: Variation: gotta play like this here.

[21:41] Levvo[1k]: Variation: maybe?

[21:41] Levvo[1k]: but hard to use the thickness on top

Move 10

[22:03] Levvo[1k]: so

[22:03] Levvo[1k]: also read the hane out

Move 8

[22:04] Levvo[1k]: all yours then

[22:04] saxmaam[14k]: you mean r15?

[22:04] saxmaam[14k]: as well as q15?

[22:06] Levvo[1k]: both

[22:06] Levvo[1k]: think about em

[22:16] saxmaam[14k]: so off the top, I don't like r15 because the cut leaves just 2 liberties for q17 group

[22:55] Levvo[1k]: Yea sur

[22:55] Levvo[1k]: And what does q15 do?

[22:56] Levvo[1k]: What are white options

[22:56] Levvo[1k]: And what would white aim to do

[23:01] saxmaam[14k]: q15 is nice for white ... open pathways on both sides

[23:01] saxmaam[14k]: w might hane to q14

[23:01] Levvo[1k]: show me?

[23:02] saxmaam[14k]: oh, nevermind

[23:02] saxmaam[14k]: Variation: white might jump ahead

[23:02] Levvo[1k]: can black do smoething if white does that?

[23:04] saxmaam[14k]: black can skip ahead, too

[23:04] Levvo[1k]: how?

[23:04] saxmaam[14k]: Variation: skip ahead

[23:04] saxmaam[14k]: Variation: or push in

[23:05] Levvo[1k]: okey and

[23:05] Levvo[1k]: Do they work?

[23:05] Levvo[1k]: Did you read the cuts?

[23:06] saxmaam[14k]: skip ahead looks better to me, though the cut looks messy. can't say I like it

[23:08] Levvo[1k]: Variation: If we for example turn the moves around

[23:08] Levvo[1k]: What would you play?

[23:08] Levvo[1k]: What is 4 doing?

[23:09] saxmaam[14k]: peeping

[23:09] Levvo[1k]: So

[23:09] Levvo[1k]: If white has 4 already, would you play 3?

[23:10] saxmaam[14k]: I don't know

[23:10] Levvo[1k]: Variation: How about here?

[23:10] Levvo[1k]: What would you play

[23:10] saxmaam[14k]: q15

[23:11] Levvo[1k]: Yes, why?

[23:11] saxmaam[14k]: q16 short on liberties ... even q14 has just 4 liberties

[23:11] Levvo[1k]: Okey is it only a question of liberties ?

[23:11] saxmaam[14k]: in other scenario, the three connected stones have 5 liberties and maybe that's good enough for now.

[23:12] Levvo[1k]: I see how you're thinking

[23:12] Levvo[1k]: Variation: The problem lies here.

[23:12] Levvo[1k]: Black is giving white a way to create 2 cuts.

[23:13] saxmaam[14k]: ladder doesn't work at A

[23:14] Levvo[1k]: Variation: This is why we more commonly see a move like A instead.

[23:14] Levvo[1k]: Right but it gives you forcing moves.

[23:14] Levvo[1k]: Remember, not everything is local

[23:14] Levvo[1k]: And not everything is present

[23:14] Levvo[1k]: You need to also think long-term

[23:14] Levvo[1k]: If you have the choice of 2 shapes

[23:15] Levvo[1k]: 1 gives worse shape but might seem quicker. and 1 gives good shape but looks abit slow.

[23:15] saxmaam[14k]: yes?

[23:15] Levvo[1k]: Generally the good shape is still correct. Because you will never have to defend the weak shape you had.

[23:15] saxmaam[14k]: ok

[23:15] Levvo[1k]: Its abit like..

[23:16] Levvo[1k]: Variation: A vs B.

[23:16] Levvo[1k]: hmmm

[23:16] Levvo[1k]: Variation: Let's make it more obvious

[23:17] Levvo[1k]: Variation: black can run just fine.

[23:17] Levvo[1k]: Variation: If white can cut A, black cannot play 7 K16 but have to defend.

[23:17] Levvo[1k]: Variation: so its the same thing

[23:18] saxmaam[14k]: so ... choose shape over speed

[23:19] Levvo[1k]: Variation: If black have to use a stone at A to defend the cut on the left side. He would be faster with playing move 6 at B

[23:19] Levvo[1k]: And this is sort of the same principle.

[23:19] Levvo[1k]: Makes sense?

[23:20] Levvo[1k]: Its always situational ofcourse

[23:20] Levvo[1k]: But in general, if you can avoid bad shape, it's better.

[23:20] saxmaam[14k]: move 6 is d7?

[23:21] Levvo[1k]: Variation: like this

[23:21] Levvo[1k]: Variation: A is slower if A needs to defend at A.

[23:22] saxmaam[14k]: ok ... I see

[23:22] saxmaam[14k]: "do it right the first time"

[23:22] Levvo[1k]: Yes exactly! :)

[23:22] saxmaam[14k]: going back to fix is slower

[23:23] Levvo[1k]: uhu

[23:23] saxmaam[14k]: so ... I'm sleepy now. Will review this tomorrow morning and then make my move.

[23:24] Levvo[1k]: Yea no worries

[23:24] saxmaam[14k]: must be late where you are

[23:24] Levvo[1k]: if you canot find a good move I dont mind if we undo more either =)

[23:24] Levvo[1k]: 1:30 am

[23:24] Levvo[1k]: Watching startrek XD

[23:24] saxmaam[14k]: g'night

[23:25] Levvo[1k]: night! =)

July 29, 2015

[12:27] saxmaam[14k]: Variation: Levvo points out: knight's move to p13 means 1 cut if w q14. q13 would let W make 2 cuts

Move 10

July 30, 2015

[18:10] Levvo[1k]: That is one way of playing indeed! =)'

[18:10] Levvo[1k]: There is alot of bad aji for white in the cut aswell

Move 11

July 31, 2015

[15:04] saxmaam[14k]: This lets W continue to grow on top, but I am at least prepared for a push to W s15

Move 13

[18:03] saxmaam[14k]: I considered o4.

[18:04] saxmaam[14k]: Variation: but I'm also aware of joseki that goes something like this

[18:04] saxmaam[14k]: so I decide to prioritize enclosing UL corner

[18:05] saxmaam[14k]: Variation: annoying things that W could do

[18:11] Levvo[1k]: Hmmm

Move 14

[18:12] Levvo[1k]: So

[18:12] Levvo[1k]: That corner

[18:12] Levvo[1k]: Do you think its importaint?

[18:13] Levvo[1k]: Or rather why did you decide on top right beeing more importaint then the right side or the lower side?

[18:13] Levvo[1k]: top left*

[20:35] saxmaam[14k]: Variation: at this point, I felt like I'd lose q17 group if I played away

[20:39] saxmaam[14k]: so it was a matter of playing the urgent thing versus playing the important thing

[20:39] saxmaam[14k]: are you suggesting I should've just abandoned?

Move 15

[20:40] saxmaam[14k]: running for the center like Levvo taught me.

[20:40] saxmaam[14k]: Considered staying in the corner and making a small group.

Move 16

[20:45] Levvo[1k]: All good ! =)

[20:45] Levvo[1k]: Q4 is good for many reasons ^^

Move 17

[22:10] saxmaam[14k]: also considered q5

[22:10] saxmaam[14k]: I mean p5

[22:11] saxmaam[14k]: I chose q5 because it takes a liberty from r5

Move 18

August 1, 2015

[12:26] Levvo[1k]: Its good :) .. you are one move behind but white has 2 groups. Consider that when you decide on how to play

[12:28] saxmaam[14k]: o5 would be moving to center, but it would allow W to link his groups, probably

[12:29] saxmaam[14k]: Variation: maybe not

[12:29] saxmaam[14k]: q6 would be slow

[12:31] saxmaam[14k]: o6 is faster than o5.

[12:31] saxmaam[14k]: Variation: but it can be cut

Move 20

[12:49] Levvo[1k]: Q6 could be slow but shape is also important. For both players

[13:15] saxmaam[14k]: Variation: this is shape, too, isn't it?

[13:15] saxmaam[14k]: How do I compare one kind of shape against another?

Move 21

[13:16] saxmaam[14k]: keep white low on the bottom

[13:16] saxmaam[14k]: considered m4, but I don't want to fight now (too early)

Move 22

August 2, 2015

[15:45] Levvo[1k]: Yes it is. But it also lets white get a tigers mouth

[15:46] Levvo[1k]: Black is still doing ok though!

[15:47] Levvo[1k]: I guess at higher levels, making sure your opponent doesnt get hos plans through to far is important too.

[15:48] saxmaam[13k]: should I try to keep W from connecting in the corner?

[15:48] saxmaam[13k]: I'm thinking not, since even if I keep the two groups separate, they will both live.

Move 23

[15:50] saxmaam[13k]: considered q6 again, but I don't think that tiger mouth would give me too much trouble. I'd just p6 in response

Move 24

[17:11] Levvo[1k]: Ah, but that's the issue there. It wont give you any problems at all. But it will also fix all of white problems, right?

[17:12] Levvo[1k]: so q6 would be kind of a "I'm going to ruin your shape" move.

[17:12] Levvo[1k]: But there are other moves in the same area aswell

[17:12] Levvo[1k]: You can consider things like the wedge at r6, sometimes the clamp can work at like s5 or just q7.

[17:13] Levvo[1k]: It might not be worth doing directly though

[17:13] Levvo[1k]: but maybe you could have found something if you played r2 earlier

[17:13] Levvo[1k]: Variation: Alot of aji in this wedge now.

[17:14] Levvo[1k]: m5 is not bad though. You have alot of influence stones.

[17:14] Levvo[1k]: I would suggest you try to start a fight actually in this kind of situation.

[17:15] Levvo[1k]: Keeping white unhealthy is importaint because you can threaten whites future weak groups to build your territory.

Move 52

August 3, 2015

[14:46] saxmaam[13k]: help me here .... what should I think about?

[14:46] Levvo[1k]: hmm

[14:47] saxmaam[13k]: (will be gone for a while ...)

[14:48] Levvo[1k]: Variation: So.

[14:48] Levvo[1k]: It is honestly quite hard for black to maintain all of this center.

[14:48] Levvo[1k]: Since whit has 2 stones peeking in.

[14:53] Levvo[1k]: Variation: Black needs 50 points in the center.

[14:56] Levvo[1k]: Variation: If black would get all the 80 points in the center, we can expect white to get most of the outside here.

[14:57] Levvo[1k]: So black needs 50p + ~32 = 82 points.

[14:57] Levvo[1k]: In the center.

[14:57] Levvo[1k]: Do you see how this is going to be very hard?

[14:59] Levvo[1k]: Variation: So here you need to decide on what you want.

[15:00] Levvo[1k]: 1: Corner, 2: Outside influence or 3: Safe group on the side.

[15:00] Levvo[1k]: Variation: 1

[15:00] Levvo[1k]: Variation: 2

[15:00] Levvo[1k]: Variation: 3

[15:00] Levvo[1k]: For example.

[15:01] Levvo[1k]: At this point, when you chose the outside.

[15:01] Levvo[1k]: Variation: (Here in your case)

[15:01] Levvo[1k]: You need a plan for what you want to do with it.

[15:02] Levvo[1k]: So the answer to your question is, you should have thought about white trying to reduce you when you made the wall.

[15:02] Levvo[1k]: And now you need to get ~ 82+ points in the center to win. Or possibily by attacking white somewhere (like lower left corner).

[15:03] Levvo[1k]: And how you want to defend the center is quite hard to say for me.

[15:03] Levvo[1k]: It's hard to see any clear moves that could let you have it all in this kind of situation.

[15:03] Levvo[1k]: But yea, counting is importaint.

[15:05] Levvo[1k]: Variation: Black traded thickness at A for whites 24 points at B.

[15:06] Levvo[1k]: I think I would try to make the game more complicated now and invade white. =)

[15:07] Levvo[1k]: possibly first cutting L17 off and fighting with it. Making it a all in game if you kill it you can win, if you dont it's whites win for sure.

[15:07] Levvo[1k]: Hope that helps =)

Move 53

[15:21] saxmaam[13k]: But W can almost certainly make a base and live, yes?

[15:22] Levvo[1k]: It will be very hard to kill, indeed.

Move 54

[15:23] Levvo[1k]: Variation: Keep in mind your own weak shapes here though.

[15:24] saxmaam[13k]: I think this is all I want from this game. You said a lot of very meaty things and I want to think about them.

August 4, 2015

[14:53] saxmaam[13k]: Levvo, thanks so much for the lesson!