Game Finished

Move 180

ben0[1d]

2 captures

Lukan[13k]

2 captures

+ 6.5

Unranked

Rules: Japanese

White wins by Resignation

Reviews

Daniug[3d] - view

GoDave89[5d] - view

Lukan[?] - view

Move 0

January 14, 2021

[9:03] Lukan[?]: have a nice game!

Move 1

[9:03] ben0[4d]: Have a nice game!

Move 6

[9:05] JN_T21[?]: Go, Lukan!

Move 8

[9:07] Zaphodian[?]: Go, BenZero!

Move 14

[9:13] kussbas[6k]: good

[9:14] kussbas[6k]: wite

[9:15] chincchapabo[1d]: hi~ hvvaiting Ben

Move 32

[9:23] Puumanamana[3d]: apparently the correct move here is A2, but I'd want to play G6

Move 33

[9:30] Zaphodian[?]: This is more or less joseki

Move 34

[9:31] Zaphodian[?]: Locally, W's best move would be at C13

[9:32] Zaphodian[?]: However, Q16 is an attempt at a ladder-breaker to capture G5

[9:33] Zaphodian[?]: Locally, B can choose between Q15, Q17 and (sometimes) R17

[9:34] Zaphodian[?]: R17 is passive and, in this case, would enable W to take G5 in a ladder.

[9:34] Zaphodian[?]: Q17 will also lead to a ladder.

[9:35] Zaphodian[?]: So Q15 is the move and B's strategy would be to invite W to lose points in the top right to get the ladder right.

Move 35

[9:36] Zaphodian[?]: G6 is a courageous move

[9:36] dacat1[7d]: g6 is a joseki :D

[9:36] dacat1[7d]: as far as I know

[9:36] Zaphodian[?]: Yes, that's true, but it's all about timing

[9:37] Zaphodian[?]: R17 would be kiai (fighting spirit) for W now.

Move 36

[9:37] Puumanamana[3d]: haha, I'd like to see that

[9:38] dacat1[7d]: i have a nice story about this joseki: two students played a game i did a text review for, and they played a sequence tht I thought was super Suspicious. Then I checked with a computer and that's how I learned about this joseki

[9:38] dacat1[7d]: good students

[9:39] Zaphodian[?]: But W is ok just playing in the lower left. Because the top right is still a joseki if B plays first. So W's strategy is trying to get an advantage in the lower left.

[9:40] Zaphodian[?]: Ohh, yes, the first time I saw it, it was between two pros. Then it turned out they were two young top pros.

[9:41] Puumanamana[3d]: did the students know the joseki ? or played it instinctively ?

Move 37

[9:41] Zaphodian[?]: The main thing to remember in this joseki in the lower left is to play the ko and play the local ko threat at G4.

[9:42] Puumanamana[3d]: but then, this joseki might be a lot affected if other corner have already been played, no? other ko threats

[9:42] Puumanamana[3d]: is it still joseki if black has ko threats?

[9:43] Zaphodian[?]: Go is a game that is very flexible.

[9:44] Zaphodian[?]: So, any joseki can be bad depending on the circumstances.

[9:44] Zaphodian[?]: EVEN if you play the moves exactly as in the joseki.

Move 40

[9:44] dacat1[7d]: this ko isn't that big

[9:45] dacat1[7d]: most moves at this stage of the game are suitable ko threats

[9:45] Zaphodian[?]: So now these guys play another joseki nin the top right, haha

Move 43

[9:46] Zaphodian[?]: I think the ko is very big, just not decisive.

[9:46] Zaphodian[?]: The 'new' move is O18 now

Move 44

[9:50] Zaphodian[?]: Meanwhile, Iyama and Kono are playing the second day of their first game of the best-of-seven Kisei Title match

[9:50] Zaphodian[?]: which has entered a critical stage of the game where life and death will be decided.

[9:51] Zaphodian[?]: The players just decided their favorite weapon of choice for this battle....

[9:51] Zaphodian[?]: They chose KO!

[9:51] Zaphodian[?]: Anyway, that's a different game.

Move 53

[9:53] Zaphodian[?]: So the moves from O18 and on are part of a new joseki

[9:54] Zaphodian[?]: Oscar, how do you like the sequences?

[9:55] dacat1[7d]: me?

Move 54

[9:55] Zaphodian[?]: I think W is slightly better off.

[9:55] Zaphodian[?]: Yes, you...

[9:55] dacat1[7d]: white's tenuki is interesting

[9:55] Zaphodian[?]: Which tenuki?

[9:55] dacat1[7d]: m15, i would expect f8 honte

[9:56] Zaphodian[?]: ic.

[9:56] dacat1[7d]: the whole reason black played g6 instead of h5 is that b wants sente

[9:56] dacat1[7d]: white didn't comply

[9:56] dacat1[7d]: so the players are evidently in disagreement :D

[9:56] Zaphodian[?]: really?

[9:56] dacat1[7d]: i would say so

[9:57] dacat1[7d]: black: 'let me play a locally bad move that gets me sente'

[9:57] dacat1[7d]: white: 'let me tenuki anyway '

[9:57] dacat1[7d]: im not sure who i like

[9:58] dacat1[7d]: black h8 will give him great shape now, but m15 wasn't a small move at all

[9:58] CarloTibaldi[1d]: now B H8 is slow?

[9:58] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Dacat, you mean this?

[9:58] dacat1[7d]: yes

[9:58] dacat1[7d]: that variation is black's expecation

[9:58] dacat1[7d]: h8 seems natural now

Move 55

[9:59] Zaphodian[?]: Yes, so W's tenuki was good then, I mean, his move at M15 was a success because it frustrated B's expectations....

[10:00] dacat1[7d]: that depends on how we value black's follow-up

[10:00] Zaphodian[?]: C11 looks weird...

[10:00] dacat1[7d]: say you have one move to live with your dragon, but you instead take sente and die

[10:00] dacat1[7d]: my expectations would indeed have eben frustrated

Move 56

[10:00] dacat1[7d]: :D

Move 57

[10:00] Zaphodian[?]: Because C12 cannot really be answered with c11, because of the peep at c9

[10:01] dacat1[7d]: I would have played g8, but black's move is interesting

[10:01] dacat1[7d]: maybe locally its questionable

Move 59

[10:04] Zaphodian[?]: ??? G8 instead of H7?

Move 63

[10:08] Zaphodian[?]: W is now definitely leading.

[10:09] Zaphodian[?]: So I checked it with an AI.

[10:09] Zaphodian[?]: Apparently F8 was to slow

[10:09] Zaphodian[?]: too slow

[10:09] Zaphodian[?]: He should have fought with H7 G8 F8

Move 64

[10:10] Zaphodian[?]: C7 seems to be slow too. LeelaZ would invade at C13

[10:11] Zaphodian[?]: But for humans that sounds way to dangerous.

[10:11] Zaphodian[?]: Why? Because during the fight after W C13, B could get stones around D11 and E10 and attack W's group in the lower left.

Move 65

[10:12] Zaphodian[?]: Humans can not read so well that they would safe battling this fight.

[10:13] Zaphodian[?]: oops *that they would feel safe*

[10:13] Zaphodian[?]: G10 looks like an overplay.

[10:14] Puumanamana[3d]: I'm surprised about G10 too, it looks small to me

[10:14] Zaphodian[?]: Ask yourself what B's stones at F7 are really splitting.

Move 66

[10:15] Zaphodian[?]: OK, so now W feels emboldened - he is alive with his lower left group, so now he feels safe to start a fight.

[10:17] dacat1[7d]: wasnt c7 a bit passive in the first place?

[10:17] Zaphodian[?]: B really has no good move now

[10:18] dacat1[7d]: Variation: left side is really small, go for strength instead?

Move 68

[10:19] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: B defends But W gets a huge profit

[10:20] dacat1[7d]: that variation you show looks fine for b?

[10:20] dacat1[7d]: b gets sente, w got the corner but has to add yet another move to save the left

[10:21] dacat1[7d]: and w h9 group will be problematic

[10:21] Zaphodian[?]: Yes, dacat, B should have gotten rid of F8 cutting stones, because they cut a live group from an at best unimportant group at H7.

[10:21] dacat1[7d]: i think b13 would have been fne for b

[10:21] Zaphodian[?]: H9 group is relatively small, I think

[10:22] Zaphodian[?]: Hmmm, I am afraid I am not getting it (the game sequence)...

[10:22] dacat1[7d]: its big only in that it makes black's own group a bit weak

[10:22] dacat1[7d]: but yes, the center is loose change

Move 69

[10:23] Zaphodian[?]: I do understand D11, but not E11

[10:23] dacat1[7d]: imo its loose change due to n5 exchanges among other things, which seem early and unnecessary

[10:23] Zaphodian[?]: E11 should be at D14

Move 70

[10:23] dacat1[7d]: not sure, black e10 would be amazing shape then

Move 72

[10:24] dacat1[7d]: and w hasn't confirmed the corner yet

[10:24] Zaphodian[?]: These players are heavily involved in groupthink with the same biases, IMNSHO.

[10:24] dacat1[7d]: Variation: black has megahonte, endgame on the left side too

[10:24] Puumanamana[3d]: I guess w is aiming for influence and to kill the black stones in the middle

Move 73

[10:24] dacat1[7d]: like, center is relativley unimportant, but not *that* irrelevant

[10:24] Zaphodian[?]: Yes, while I think the center fight is not that important.

[10:25] dacat1[7d]: I think you like corners too much @zaphodian :D

[10:25] Zaphodian[?]: True

[10:25] dacat1[7d]: two variations where you gave black lots of strength for the corner, i like black in those

[10:25] dacat1[7d]: maybe i don't appreciate corners as much as I should

[10:25] dacat1[7d]: idk

[10:25] Zaphodian[?]: Because there are only 4 of them while there is only one center.

[10:25] Zaphodian[?]: (oops that didn;t make sense...)

[10:26] dacat1[7d]: idk about center...

[10:26] dacat1[7d]: i care about shape

[10:26] dacat1[7d]: Variation: so dont let b get e10 :D

Move 74

[10:28] dacat1[7d]: in general i agree with black's play, but w c7 and n5 exchanges are suspicious

[10:28] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: more is better

[10:28] dacat1[7d]: xD

[10:28] redreoicy[5d]: I am 95% sure that n5 m4 m5 l4 exchange was good for white

[10:29] dacat1[7d]: w lost the opportunity for an invbasion

[10:29] nidza[?]: i wake up to Lukan having a moyo, anything can happen today hm..

[10:29] dacat1[7d]: relatively easy invasion at that

[10:29] Zaphodian[?]: Hmmm, I understood the internal logical consistency of C7 and C13.

[10:29] redreoicy[5d]: easy invasion? black is soo strong on both sides

[10:29] redreoicy[5d]: i think the bottom was very low value

[10:29] Zaphodian[?]: Good Morning!

[10:29] dacat1[7d]: logically consistent, but still wrong imo :D

[10:30] dacat1[7d]: morning @nidza

[10:30] Zaphodian[?]: Well, that may or may not be true, but then you would be passing a personal judgment on the white player.

Move 75

[10:31] dacat1[7d]: why so?

[10:31] dacat1[7d]: he made two moves that are logically consistent, using wrong logic...

[10:31] dacat1[7d]: i do that all the time :D

[10:31] Zaphodian[?]: I understand his way of thinking, he wants to avoid an all out fight.

[10:31] dacat1[7d]: I understand as well

[10:31] dacat1[7d]: i think

[10:31] dacat1[7d]: its just not correct

[10:31] Zaphodian[?]: hahaha, of course, you are not wrong. I just wanna remind you of the small-print.

[10:32] nidza[?]: wait what g9

Move 80

[10:33] Zaphodian[?]: G9 at J11, at least

[10:33] Zaphodian[?]: G9 is "shitsukoi"

[10:34] Zaphodian[?]: (obstinate)

[10:34] nidza[?]: i'd not even think of saving those stones

[10:34] redreoicy[5d]: both sides are heavy

[10:34] redreoicy[5d]: w at h8 and b at g9

Move 81

[10:34] Zaphodian[?]: And B executes his plan...

[10:35] redreoicy[5d]: at least white should j12

[10:35] Zaphodian[?]: Obviously nobody saw this coming (forgive my sarcasm)

[10:36] Zaphodian[?]: But now there is some internal inconsistency

[10:36] Zaphodian[?]: If his big plan was to play D9, he should not have exchanged J11 for K11

[10:37] redreoicy[5d]: B's mistake ^^

[10:38] nuborn[?]: I really like white's position.. safe with C7 and now will only benefit from attacking the G10 move

Move 87

[10:40] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: is there another move?

[10:41] redreoicy[5d]: cannot imagine anything else

[10:41] Zaphodian[?]: B is in moral danger, IMO

Move 88

[10:41] Zaphodian[?]: inevitable?

[10:42] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: inevitable?

[10:42] nidza[?]: i can't help but enjoy myself when greedy moves lead to dead groups

[10:43] redreoicy[5d]: Variation: sacrifice possible

Move 90

[10:44] Zaphodian[?]: Well, @nidza, maybe you have a strong sense of morality.

Move 92

[10:45] redreoicy[5d]: aiyee the atari is too painful

[10:45] Zaphodian[?]: Do you like Hollywood movies where the end is always a happy one?

[10:45] fightyoats[4d]: lol

[10:46] Zaphodian[?]: OK, I am gonna frank here, I do like those movies.

Move 95

[10:47] redreoicy[5d]: this is sooo heavy

[10:47] nidza[?]: i don't watch movies, maybe 1 a year. not enough sample to say:)

[10:47] Zaphodian[?]: But of course, the standards of good and evil don't apply to myself - I love to play greedy moves. But I know they are wrong.... ahhhhhh

[10:47] nidza[?]: of course..

[10:48] Zaphodian[?]: B should first test at G15 before deciding on K12

[10:48] redreoicy[5d]: Variation: White can grab corner

Move 99

[10:49] Zaphodian[?]: B is in digging himself in in very deep trenches.

Move 101

[10:50] Zaphodian[?]: I feel happy now, because both B and W play very predictable moves.

[10:50] dacat1[7d]: thats boring tho

[10:50] Zaphodian[?]: So no uneasiness and emotional upsets. I am gonna drink some coffee

[10:51] redreoicy[5d]: as white i just want to exchange d14 asap

Move 102

[10:51] redreoicy[5d]: it's too sad to imagine missing the chance

Move 104

[10:51] Zaphodian[?]: I won't miss the chance, I am drinking coffee!

[10:51] Zaphodian[?]: lol

Move 105

[10:52] redreoicy[5d]: Variation: white lost his chance :(

[10:52] Zaphodian[?]: If B gets the chance to get sente and play E15 he should be so-so again

Move 107

[10:53] Zaphodian[?]: Yes, after K12, W will NEVER answer G15 at G14

Move 108

[10:53] redreoicy[5d]: where else to answer?

Move 110

[10:53] redreoicy[5d]: the g12 throw in aji will be annoying

Move 111

[10:54] Zaphodian[?]: N10 was bad, IMO. He gives W a comfortable life.

[10:55] Zaphodian[?]: Yes, but with some correct reading, W should be able to ride out the storm.

[10:55] redreoicy[5d]: let's just d14 now as white

[10:55] redreoicy[5d]: end the drama

[10:56] nidza[?]: b lost quite a bit in process of escaping, w can catch up on points i guess

[10:56] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: riding against the storm

[10:56] dacat1[7d]: now wouldn't it be nice for white to have m3 invasion still available?

[10:56] CarloTibaldi[1d]: what about P13?

[10:57] Zaphodian[?]: ahhhh, yes, dacat

[10:57] nidza[?]: maybe c13 works

Move 112

[10:57] nidza[?]: yep

[10:57] nidza[?]: i meant c14

[10:57] dacat1[7d]: w plays p9, then b will owe a move to close the lower side

[10:57] dacat1[7d]: instead of getting it for free

Move 113

[10:57] Zaphodian[?]: D14 is the only move now

[10:57] dacat1[7d]: ah but white wants to fight :D

Move 115

[10:58] Zaphodian[?]: I like it! B is being ambitious

[10:58] dacat1[7d]: b probably doesn't like it :D

[10:58] Zaphodian[?]: At least, he shows ambition saying: I will go down, but not before all my limbs are chopped off.

[10:59] redreoicy[5d]: w wasn't satisfied and is going for kill

[10:59] dacat1[7d]: black's been saying that all game, evne when he wasn't behind

[10:59] dacat1[7d]: suspicious attitude

Move 116

[11:00] dacat1[7d]: in retrospect we can say fighting with the center group was abit early for black?

[11:00] Zaphodian[?]: He will soon run out of limbs to be chopped off.

[11:00] redreoicy[5d]: black's fighting in the center was not good

[11:00] Zaphodian[?]: Although, he seems to have the ability to grown new limbs, like the one in the center.

[11:01] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: OK for B

[11:02] dacat1[7d]: not ok for b?

[11:02] dacat1[7d]: Variation: not ok for b

Move 119

[11:02] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: alternative

Move 121

[11:02] redreoicy[5d]: b needed to play g15 earlier

[11:02] nidza[?]: w messed up

[11:02] redreoicy[5d]: but then again, b was always in trouble

[11:03] Zaphodian[?]: W is still ahead

[11:03] Zaphodian[?]: Yes, g15 was important

[11:03] redreoicy[5d]: i don't think white messed up, w got his sente corner as he wanted

Move 123

[11:05] dacat1[7d]: so w is ahead? someone count for me

Move 124

[11:05] redreoicy[5d]: w is ahead

[11:05] dacat1[7d]: thx ^^

[11:06] Zaphodian[?]: B has less than 70 and W has 70 + komi

[11:07] Jolly River[4k]: w+9 says AI on twitch

Move 125

[11:07] Zaphodian[?]: So B now has to cause havoc at the top

[11:07] Zaphodian[?]: hahaha, bingo!

[11:07] dacat1[7d]: lets gooooo

[11:07] Zaphodian[?]: "wreak havoc" is the expression, of course.

[11:08] Gornador[?]: @Nidžo What else he need for B6 to work? Looks like nothing but that ko gives some strange possibilities

[11:08] redreoicy[5d]: i am very curious what is black's plan after k16

[11:08] dacat1[7d]: this is not impossible for b

[11:08] dacat1[7d]: i can see it working

[11:09] Zaphodian[?]: Probably I would have played P9 at K14

[11:09] redreoicy[5d]: Variation: white is alive

[11:09] redreoicy[5d]: not sure the best move but

Move 126

[11:09] redreoicy[5d]: regarding b6

Move 128

[11:09] Fredda91[7d]: j15 looks annoying

Move 129

[11:10] nidza[?]: @Gornador b hopes for B6 B4 E6 E5 E7

Move 131

[11:11] Zaphodian[?]: SHIBANO Toramaru just beat TSURUYAMA Atsushi in a Honinbo league match to decide the challanger for the Honinbo title.

[11:11] Zaphodian[?]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyOjb-RJN6U

[11:11] redreoicy[5d]: white defend top now k14 or something

Move 134

[11:12] Zaphodian[?]: yup

Move 135

[11:12] Gornador[?]: Yes, I see that but if it works now why dont start it? It is too big...

Move 139

[11:13] redreoicy[5d]: white won't answer b6 at b4, white has several ways to live instead

Move 140

[11:13] Fredda91[7d]: like this b just lose

Move 141

[11:13] Zaphodian[?]: yes

[11:13] Fredda91[7d]: boring

[11:14] nidza[?]: i dont expect anything to work around b6 but better to try yeah

[11:14] Gornador[?]: y

Move 145

[11:14] redreoicy[5d]: b6 b7 is simple enough for w

Move 148

[11:15] redreoicy[5d]: p14 / p13 sort of double sente

Move 150

[11:16] Gornador[?]: b6 b7 was not working as far as I could see because of c5

Move 152

[11:17] Whirly[1d]: w is leading by about komi from my count

Move 153

[11:18] redreoicy[5d]: Variation: white is alive

Move 156

[11:18] death_taxes[1k]: how long have they been playing?

Move 159

[11:19] Zaphodian[?]: Since 10

Move 161

[11:19] Zaphodian[?]: CET

[11:19] death_taxes[1k]: $*!%

[11:19] death_taxes[1k]: d a m n

[11:19] Zaphodian[?]: life's tough

Move 163

[11:20] Gornador[?]: @redreoicy yes, so he needed b11 or something...

Move 165

[11:21] Whirly[1d]: hm

[11:21] Whirly[1d]: w can ko

[11:21] Zaphodian[?]: ko, just make it si.

[11:21] Zaphodian[?]: so

Move 169

[11:22] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: ko

Move 180

[11:26] ben0[4d]: Thanks

[11:26] Lukan[?]: thanks for the game!

[11:27] JN_T21[?]: Good game!

[11:27] fightyoats[4d]: gg

[11:27] alkar[4d]: Gratulace Lukáši !

[11:30] Lukan[?]: Review: ##596329

January 16, 2021

[9:07] Daniug[3d]: Review: ##597593

May 29, 2021

[5:43] GoDave89[5d]: Review: ##678737