Move 305
58 points
64.5 points
Unranked
Rules: Japanese
III
Processing
White wins by 6.5 points
Move 19
January 19, 2021
[8:47] dlpigozzi[4k]: boom, hi everyone
[8:47] Zaphodian[?]: Hi everybody
[8:47] kusrabs[5k]: Удачи, Александр!!!
[8:48] kusrabs[5k]: Hello, camarades
[8:48] HongAnhKhoa[1d]: Hi everyone
[8:48] Zaphodian[?]: So a new move by Diner. M4 is usually at N5
[8:49] Handibot[9d+]: not exactly new
[8:49] Handibot[9d+]: it's an old joseki
Move 20
[8:50] Zaphodian[?]: It's not old - I don't think it exists as a joseki
Move 23
[8:51] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: shape move
[8:52] Goyer[4k]: but with p4 white made more sense for the black stone r6 - is it good ?
[8:53] Zaphodian[?]: ??? no. But I do think K3 should be at R8
[8:54] ys3[3d]: id feel more uncomfortable with w getting k3
[8:54] OndraKruml[?]: not so easy to find next move for white, p2 looks a bit overplayish
[8:54] ys3[3d]: black has room with the pincer being further
[8:54] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Ok for B, but Diner does not like running groups
[8:55] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Fine for B, but again, a little think.
[8:56] dlpigozzi[4k]: so this is battle for the 1st position in the group and so avoiding Ilya next round
[8:56] Handibot[9d+]: zaphodian if you ever have happened to have visited the OGS joseki site ou'll find the move.
[8:56] dlpigozzi[4k]: important match
[8:56] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: W gets overall thickness - invade later
[8:57] suprinkonorta[14k]: let em play
[8:57] ys3[3d]: its ok they cant see our chat
[8:57] ys3[3d]: they wouldnt listen to us anyway
[8:57] Zaphodian[?]: I don;t care about the joseki site. Anybody can input data there. In all of my 50 years of play, I have never seen it in a pro game.
[8:57] nadoss[1d]: I'm curious why white didn't complete the upper left joseki
[8:58] ys3[3d]: w can tenuki that
Move 24
[8:58] Handibot[9d+]: ur 60?
[8:58] ys3[3d]: thats interesting
[8:58] Handibot[9d+]: wow.
[8:59] nadoss[1d]: white typically plays B13 exchange before tenuki
[8:59] Zaphodian[?]: Top left - OLD joseki, but very bad for W.
[8:59] ys3[3d]: usually, yeah, but its not required if you have some other thing you want to do
[8:59] 💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: ohh r3 looks really passive
[8:59] dlpigozzi[4k]: conservative I would say
[8:59] 💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: but i guess its very powerful against r6 stone
[8:59] nadoss[1d]: you almost always choose between B13-C12 exchange, or you hane and connect to finish the pre-ai form
[9:00] BlueFerrisWheel[5d]: tbh is move 19 really an old joseki
[9:00] kusrabs[5k]: And now r6 can spread with r9
[9:00] Zaphodian[?]: No, it's wishy-washy
[9:00] BlueFerrisWheel[5d]: don't think so
[9:00] Handibot[9d+]: Variation: 1
[9:01] Handibot[9d+]: Top left is not "very bad for white," btw.
[9:01] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: B can move at A of B IF he wants to pull out his marked stone.
[9:01] OndraKruml[?]: i found three pro games with m4 ps.waltheri.net/database/game/78575/
[9:01] BlueFerrisWheel[5d]: interesting
[9:01] Handibot[9d+]: After AI appeared top white is a recommendation because white can attack as E15
[9:01] BlueFerrisWheel[5d]: cause it looks really weird
[9:01] ys3[3d]: the bot did point out that this move makes p6 less effective
[9:02] ys3[3d]: cause the corners about alive on its own
[9:02] nadoss[1d]: Handibot, the AI typically makes the B13 exchange, though, right??
[9:03] Draco Huchins[3k]: hello!!!
[9:03] Handibot[9d+]: in either way
[9:03] dlpigozzi[4k]: you can test it empirically
Move 25
[9:03] Handibot[9d+]: usually they do
[9:03] Handibot[9d+]: but not necessarily if the stones on the side is the opponent's
[9:03] dlpigozzi[4k]: b13 forces black to move
[9:04] Palko[2p]: P8 is fancy, but... :)
[9:04] dlpigozzi[4k]: kind of sente
[9:04] Handibot[9d+]: yes, but after the move black's wall is thickened
[9:04] Handibot[9d+]: but P8 isn't not quite effective.
[9:04] Handibot[9d+]: isn't quite x
[9:04] nadoss[1d]: I can see waiting until you understand how you want to deal with the upper side
[9:05] nadoss[1d]: but the followup just seems sooo severe
Move 26
[9:05] Zaphodian[?]: Hmmm, ic. One game only but it's quite different because in that game with Shin Jinseo, there is no stone at Q10
[9:05] Handibot[9d+]: Variation: so this would be the first thought.
[9:05] nadoss[1d]: Isn't B13 $*!% near sente for black?
[9:05] ys3[3d]: q7 felt like the move that b wanted w to play
[9:05] Zaphodian[?]: Handibot - no, that would be your last thought.
[9:06] Handibot[9d+]: you can try to understand my variations, because I'm a tygem 8d, and analyzing the game with AI.
[9:06] Zaphodian[?]: Instinctively, you don;t want to play it. But locally, it can be good.
[9:06] dlpigozzi[4k]: I can see a new friendship developing in the chat :P
Move 27
[9:07] Handibot[9d+]: Variation: or this would be the other move
[9:07] dlpigozzi[4k]: this second one looks better for B
[9:07] Handibot[9d+]: very often pros prefer "leaving the variations open for the later game" lol.
[9:08] Zaphodian[?]: Not here
[9:08] Handibot[9d+]: it's a habit type of thing
[9:08] Handibot[9d+]: the two variations are nearly equal for AI
[9:08] Handibot[9d+]: but as human I'd prefer the first one
[9:08] Zaphodian[?]: So just to clear up what a joseki is. It is a STANDARD sequence that gives a fairly equal result.
[9:09] Handibot[9d+]: As you wish, Mr. Z
Move 29
[9:09] OndraKruml[?]: this should be good for black no?
[9:10] Handibot[9d+]: not really
[9:10] Zaphodian[?]: 3 games with a different stone present would not qualify that as a joseki. But it could still qualify as a good move, that is an entirely different thing.
[9:10] Draco Huchins[3k]: i will play r13
Move 30
[9:10] Handibot[9d+]: From the human perspective it's still undecided
[9:10] Zaphodian[?]: R12 is the shape now
[9:11] Zaphodian[?]: Looks weird, but B S8 is sente
[9:11] Handibot[9d+]: after the local exchanges white has the chance to play Q16, so the regional results should be determined b the upper right angle
[9:11] Draco Huchins[3k]: maybe ? dundundun!
[9:11] Handibot[9d+]: Variation: white can tenuki though
[9:12] Zaphodian[?]: Handibot, do you know Deepak Chopra?
[9:12] Handibot[9d+]: the author?
[9:12] Zaphodian[?]: yes
[9:13] Zaphodian[?]: You write sentences like him.
[9:13] AjiTae[2d]: ouch
[9:13] Handibot[9d+]: in what ways
[9:13] massmuss[10k]: how is a bot speaking? :o
[9:13] Zaphodian[?]: So, you should really add "quantum" to your name.
Move 31
[9:14] Draco Huchins[3k]: i like to fight
[9:14] Zaphodian[?]: Well, you speak in sentences that have so much meaning that nobody understands it.
[9:14] AjiTae[2d]: massmuss: it's a really strong bot
[9:15] Zaphodian[?]: that's OK, but you still have to be able to interpret it.
[9:15] Handibot[9d+]: This move "ungood" for black
[9:15] AjiTae[2d]: lol
[9:15] Ufe[1d]: lol
Move 32
[9:15] Handibot[9d+]: lollllll
[9:15] Zaphodian[?]: You remember the very strong bot saying that the meaning of life is "42"?
[9:16] Zaphodian[?]: I don;t doubt the veracity of the statement, but to humans it seems meaningless.
Move 33
[9:16] Handibot[9d+]: Variation: white is alive.
[9:17] Handibot[9d+]: yay.
[9:17] Handibot[9d+]: I am improving to be understandable
[9:17] dlpigozzi[4k]: open to interpretation
[9:17] Handibot[9d+]: : )
[9:17] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: human mind consistency
[9:17] dlpigozzi[4k]: anyway humans usually know what to understand before is even said
[9:17] 💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: please dont spam >___>
[9:18] Handibot[9d+]: U spam, me sad.
[9:18] Handibot[9d+]: Waaah Waaaah
[9:18] dlpigozzi[4k]: back to the game
Move 34
[9:18] dlpigozzi[4k]: who would choose to play right now?
[9:18] S_Alexander[3d]: easy win for white?
[9:18] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: more human mind consistency
Move 35
[9:19] Zaphodian[?]: No, it's about even
[9:19] Handibot[9d+]: Variation: this is the joseki move. However, it's not good for white.
Move 36
[9:19] Knotwilg[4d]: LZ now recommends going back to S8
[9:19] Draco Huchins[3k]: n16 PROtect the kut
[9:19] Kanin[7d]: S8 is a large double sente
[9:19] 💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: pros dont lose games in 36 moves xD
[9:19] ys3[3d]: id take white here but i wouldnt really feel ahead either
[9:19] Draco Huchins[3k]: me no pro
[9:20] Zaphodian[?]: So Artem played the move I recommended, because it is a human move.
[9:20] Draco Huchins[3k]: only pro in minecraft
[9:20] Handibot[9d+]: Variation: possible
[9:21] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Don't connect - W is heavy , B plays 2 or A
[9:21] Handibot[9d+]: Variation: probe
[9:21] Draco Huchins[3k]: i like p12
[9:22] dlpigozzi[4k]: Does someone know why Diner is not playing the pro league?
[9:22] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Meaning of the bot's recommendation to play at 10 for B instead of at 1
[9:23] Draco Huchins[3k]: Variation: somewhere here, I think
[9:23] Zaphodian[?]: Diner is not invited because he is not a europro
[9:23] Draco Huchins[3k]: bruh
[9:23] dlpigozzi[4k]: where is he a pro?
[9:23] JustRegistered[?]: Hi Handibot, I just registered to be able to write, can you please stop suggesting moves that only AI would play? it's so annoying
[9:23] Handibot[9d+]: Variation: or this
[9:23] Zaphodian[?]: Korea
[9:24] dlpigozzi[4k]: thx zaph
[9:24] kusrabs[5k]: But does it matter where is a gamer a pro?
[9:24] Handibot[9d+]: wdym by "only AI would play"
[9:24] Zaphodian[?]: Well, yes, it does matter.
[9:24] gaxxlol[3d]: They did consider inviting Asian pros who are popular in the West (I think Antti was mentioned in the stream several times)
[9:25] Zaphodian[?]: A Europro can not play in Korea as a pro.
[9:25] Draco Huchins[3k]: why?
[9:25] kusrabs[5k]: Strange, actually. Somebody have to make a politic decision about that.
[9:25] ronin3[1k]: they did not qualify under the same rules, for one
[9:25] Ufe[1d]: I am also curious about AI recommendations. I dont think its any harm to check
[9:25] Kanin[7d]: Europros have been spotted playing in the Chinese league
[9:25] dlpigozzi[4k]: second, the level in koprea is quite distant than europe
[9:26] Zaphodian[?]: Yes, the problem with Antii is that he is a Nihon Kiin pro. The NK won;t let it's pros play in not-recognized tournaments.
Move 37
[9:26] ronin3[1k]: well there's that Chinese training thing going on for some years now, in'it?
[9:26] Kanin[7d]: this connect looks incredibly slow
[9:26] Draco Huchins[3k]: thats wierd
[9:26] Zaphodian[?]: Europros are sometimes invites and they need a sponsor to play.
[9:26] Zaphodian[?]: R10 is very slow
[9:26] Handibot[9d+]: very rarely though
[9:26] Ufe[1d]: wouldnt s11 be better than r11 if we were going to play r10
[9:27] ronin3[1k]: or maybe it's a political thing - the Chinese want to be a bit more open than the Koreans, so long term this will mean more ties with Europe... idk
[9:27] Handibot[9d+]: And sadly they never appear in the first tier
[9:27] Zaphodian[?]: for a human S8 would be good enough now.
[9:27] ronin3[1k]: S8 P12 though
[9:27] Zaphodian[?]: Well, the Europro system was set up by Chinese sponsorship in the first place.
[9:28] Kanin[7d]: I guess C6 or L14 are good choices now
[9:28] Draco Huchins[3k]: very slow
[9:28] de4e6496db954858[2k]: I like P12
[9:28] Handibot[9d+]: Yes. I've heard that is was intended as a cultural outpus
[9:28] Handibot[9d+]: it*
[9:28] Zaphodian[?]: They play at their actual strength. So Ilya will soon be 4p. I think he really plays around that level in Korea or China.
Move 38
[9:29] Draco Huchins[3k]: r9 and r11 are safe right?
[9:29] OndraKruml[?]: r10 seems so slow :O
[9:29] ronin3[1k]: haha, artem 1 zaphod 0 :-)
Move 39
[9:29] ys3[3d]: even if you just reverse the order, you often wouldnt really play r11 after r10
[9:29] ronin3[1k]: for now yes, Draco
[9:29] Draco Huchins[3k]: i dont understand
[9:30] Zaphodian[?]: J17 is probably not an AI recommendation, but it shows human kiai (i.e. fighting spirit).
[9:30] Handibot[9d+]: Ilya would be around the level of a strong amateur 6 dan in China.
[9:30] ronin3[1k]: I must remember the shape after M17
Move 40
[9:30] Draco Huchins[3k]: k14 should be ok
[9:30] ronin3[1k]: (is there a bookmark function here on ogs?)
[9:31] nadoss[1d]: b slow everywhere
[9:31] ronin3[1k]: like for a screenshot or something
[9:31] Kanin[7d]: Strong Chinese amateur 6d is stronger than many professional players
[9:31] ronin3[1k]: aw :(
[9:31] Draco Huchins[3k]: do command shift 4
[9:31] Draco Huchins[3k]: screenshot
[9:31] Handibot[9d+]: yes... The Chinese amateur system is rather strange
[9:32] kusrabs[5k]: <error> , you can move by arrows left and right and make your variation.
[9:32] Handibot[9d+]: Variation: G16 is also a bit slow, for black can connect at O18
[9:32] Handibot[9d+]: Variation: this attacs black
[9:32] ronin3[1k]: yay thanks kusrabs
Move 41
[9:32] 💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: i thought that age limit for taking pro exams in china is 25, so there are plenty of very strong amas who are too old to become pro
[9:32] ronin3[1k]: Variation: Must remember this shape
Move 42
[9:32] Handibot[9d+]: not entirely...
Move 43
[9:33] Yezurof[2d]: It's not that the amateur system is weird, it's mostly that pro level 20 years ago was rather low compare to today top amateur level
[9:33] Handibot[9d+]: There are many ways to become a pro.
[9:33] Zaphodian[?]: It is kind of meaningless to say that he would be like a strong 6d amateur in China. For example, the strongest players who live in Europe are both called Kim and they are Korean amateurs, but actually they just fell short of the pro exam at the age limit.
[9:33] ys3[3d]: well even now, china 5d is a weird concept and could be fleshed out better
[9:34] Draco Huchins[3k]: black is losing ;C
[9:34] Zaphodian[?]: N18 would ne nice now
Move 44
[9:34] Zaphodian[?]: nobody is losing yet
[9:34] Kanin[7d]: Correct, can be 4-5 stones difference between 5d in China. However, 6d is almost always incredibly strong
[9:34] Handibot[9d+]: Several competitions offer the certificate to either amateur 7d (the highest Chinese amateur ranking) or pro.
[9:34] hanh88695[5d]: those Chinese amateur player just don't want to travel for a offline rank games, some of them are way better than 6d or 5d
[9:35] Handibot[9d+]: Well. 5d is about OGS 1k-OGS 9d... You never know.
[9:35] Zaphodian[?]: Even if you look at an AI and it gives a score of 65% or so, it's almost meaningless.
Move 49
[9:36] dlpigozzi[4k]: nadoss question is solved
[9:36] Handibot[9d+]: Most professionals nowadays keep the game untilted until 60-80 ish move
[9:36] Draco Huchins[3k]: black play slow moves
[9:36] Zaphodian[?]: J14 looks like the shape or maybe at J15
[9:36] Zaphodian[?]: H14 is another shape move.
[9:37] Draco Huchins[3k]: g14 is good-ish
[9:37] Zaphodian[?]: Then again, W could start a fight by playing at Q13 or so
Move 50
[9:37] Draco Huchins[3k]: bruhhhh
[9:38] Handibot[9d+]: All those shape moves look very fancy.
[9:38] Zaphodian[?]: No, those are common shapes.
[9:38] Handibot[9d+]: AI recommends N18
[9:38] ofer.zivony[5d]: This jump looks a bit strange though
Move 51
[9:38] Zaphodian[?]: I don't care, although I mentioned that move a few moves ago.
[9:38] dlpigozzi[4k]: too late
[9:38] Draco Huchins[3k]: Variation: white is trapped
[9:38] Kanin[7d]: I think Breakfast is going to win this one
[9:39] dlpigozzi[4k]: B is aware
[9:39] Kanin[7d]: He loves this kind of solid position
[9:39] ofer.zivony[5d]: probably this move is also a mistake though
[9:40] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Human strategy
[9:40] Handibot[9d+]: Yeah sure, a go player who has played for 40 years refuses stubbornly anything unseen, calling it "unhuman" and "not worth caring. I'm literally moved to tears. Learned a lot from the spirit.
[9:41] DeYanG77[?]: привет
Move 52
[9:41] Draco Huchins[3k]: handibot is wierd
[9:41] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: untrapped
[9:41] Handibot[9d+]: teach me, master, now did your purely human brain know that the AI winrate is 65%.
[9:41] Kanin[7d]: Handibot, can we try to keep it to English, please?
[9:42] Handibot[9d+]: You are analyzing the game with an AI right beside you, and saying that all of those are "human strategies."
[9:42] Zaphodian[?]: No, you misinterpret. There is a vast difference of how a human looks at a go game and how an AI looks at it.
[9:42] ys3[3d]: koba mentioned earlier that there was a channel where bot owners roleplayed where they pretend to be bots, im starting to be more convinced that its real
[9:42] dlpigozzi[4k]: is this a turing test?
[9:42] Draco Huchins[3k]: Variation: trap the trapper
[9:43] Draco Huchins[3k]: ish
[9:43] Zaphodian[?]: How so, Handibot? The meaning of G14 is that W wants to attack at C10 or C9 ASAP
[9:43] Draco Huchins[3k]: based on their playing tactic
Move 56
[9:44] Zaphodian[?]: C10 now is quite good though
[9:44] Zaphodian[?]: there you go
[9:44] Draco Huchins[3k]: huh
[9:45] Zaphodian[?]: It's very human to play there.
Move 57
[9:45] Handibot[9d+]: sure. It's also very human to say "Even if you look at an AI and it gives a score of 65% or so, it's almost meaningless."
[9:45] Yezurof[2d]: Won't white end with 2 weak groups (G14 and C10) ?
[9:46] Zaphodian[?]: But I might have wanted to play K15/ M14 first because now W has less eye-space
[9:46] Draco Huchins[3k]: maybe
[9:46] Handibot[9d+]: Since when could humans estimate winrate
Move 58
[9:46] Draco Huchins[3k]: l14 is trippy
Move 59
[9:46] Zaphodian[?]: Yes, even if it's at 80% or so, usually, we have little idea who is better.
Move 60
[9:47] Kanin[7d]: Depends on the situation. Not all 80% leads are made equal, I guess :D
[9:47] Zaphodian[?]: At 90%, usually we now who is better, but even then in close combat, for a human it would be very difficult to find the correct move. all the time.
[9:48] OlegGorchakov[2k]: Александр давай!
[9:48] dlpigozzi[4k]: we can make a crowd forecast
[9:48] 💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: well you know, even 80% is only few points ahead
[9:48] MuYu[8k]: Would you pass me the tournament page?
[9:48] LVL79[4k]: Артем, давай, порви Александра!!!
[9:48] Handibot[9d+]: Variation: this seems quite natural
[9:48] MuYu[8k]: TY dlpigozzi
[9:48] 💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: even on empty board, game without komi is only about 88% for black
Move 61
[9:48] Zaphodian[?]: E12 is the human shape now
[9:49] Zaphodian[?]: so he plays it.
[9:49] 💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: and thats just 6 points
[9:49] dlpigozzi[4k]: crowd forecast: B wins
[9:49] dlpigozzi[4k]: come on
[9:49] dlpigozzi[4k]: participate
[9:49] kusrabs[5k]: Seems A.D. found better three %-s. If he rounds white group and makes Artem to defend it, it will be crash for white.
Move 62
[9:49] Handibot[9d+]: wow. Impressive.
[9:49] Zaphodian[?]: No, I think Artem will and should win.
[9:49] Handibot[9d+]: H12 is the human shape how, and he plays it
[9:49] dlpigozzi[4k]: 50%
[9:50] dlpigozzi[4k]: more plartipants
[9:50] dlpigozzi[4k]: the bigger the better
[9:50] 💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: i'm cheering for artem here, go egf!
[9:50] dlpigozzi[4k]: 66 for artem
[9:50] Draco Huchins[3k]: go white
[9:50] Draco Huchins[3k]: gogogo
[9:50] DeYanG77[?]: f10
[9:50] dlpigozzi[4k]: draco, is it a vote?
[9:50] LVL79[4k]: go white!
[9:50] OndraKruml[?]: d7
[9:50] Handibot[9d+]: why don't we predict the next pseudo concept "human choice"?
Move 63
[9:51] Handibot[9d+]: I go with K14 or J13
[9:51] dlpigozzi[4k]: handi, even if ai u r invited to vote
[9:51] kusrabs[5k]: I hope A.D. wins ))) And then -- Pavol. And we (I suppose it's not a misreading of rules) we have tiebreak in group.
[9:51] Draco Huchins[3k]: nani?
Move 64
[9:51] brcoutme[4k]: Handibot why don't you watch and discuss the game, instead of trying to pick fights?
[9:52] Draco Huchins[3k]: why did white do that
[9:52] Handibot[9d+]: I am discussing, I have a lot to learn
[9:52] Kanin[7d]: H11 attach
[9:52] dlpigozzi[4k]: move 62 crowd predicted 66% for artem
[9:52] Zaphodian[?]: J15/ H14 exchange was very nice for B
[9:52] Draco Huchins[3k]: it is very slow
[9:52] DeYanG77[?]: h16
[9:52] Kanin[7d]: if black can get strong in the center he can attack the white stones on the left severely
[9:53] Zaphodian[?]: J13 G12 E10 would be the most severe
[9:53] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: W's peep at 4 helps a lot
[9:53] Draco Huchins[3k]: maybe
[9:53] Handibot[9d+]: I think to develop center influence black needs to build one at E10
[9:54] kusrabs[5k]: black can prepare the attack by h17 or g17
[9:55] dlpigozzi[4k]: I see a lot of cash for B
[9:55] Handibot[9d+]: yes, master zaph's variation is exactly the AI variation. However, I can't say that's the human thought unless he admits. ^ . ^
[9:56] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Natural, but how to prevent a B peep at A next?
Move 65
[9:56] Draco Huchins[3k]: ma hamster is bored
[9:56] kusrabs[5k]: AI has no own variations, to be honest. It's all human thoughts, programmed and packed to the memory of proc.
Move 66
[9:57] ys3[3d]: handi, you claimed youre a tygem 8d but wouldnt you realize that sequence is fairly natural?
[9:57] Zaphodian[?]: nonsense
[9:57] ys3[3d]: zaph is europe 7d, maybe youd be better off not trolling
[9:57] Zaphodian[?]: E10 seems wishy-washy to me
[9:57] ys3[3d]: its really cringe that youre cosplaying a bot tbh
[9:57] DeYanG77[?]: тогда h10
[9:57] Draco Huchins[3k]: oh daryl is here
[9:58] Draco Huchins[3k]: ima going to sleep
[9:58] DeYanG77[?]: k10
[9:58] Puumanamana[2d]: not really @kusrabs, it was the 1st versions of alphago. Now many AIs have self-learning mechanisms
Move 67
[9:58] DeYanG77[?]: тож давно пора
[9:59] Zaphodian[?]: I would play D7 at E10 though.
[9:59] dlpigozzi[4k]: anyone else for the poll? who wins?
[9:59] Draco Huchins[3k]: black
[9:59] Zaphodian[?]: C4 and sometimes B5 are standard moves now
[9:59] LVL79[4k]: draw)
[9:59] Draco Huchins[3k]: wins the corner
[9:59] brcoutme[4k]: artem (white) is my vote.
[9:59] kusrabs[5k]: <error> , I'd agree to you, but... I'm a programmer and electrician from that anecdote
[10:00] dlpigozzi[4k]: crowd forecast move 67 50 %
[10:00] Zaphodian[?]: I think C3 is too early
[10:00] pynxy[6d]: Zaph is Rob?
[10:00] mical[2d]: do you think black should have build more influence attacking the white stones before invading?
[10:00] Zaphodian[?]: yup
[10:00] Puumanamana[2d]: Well, I work in AI as well so what's your point ?
[10:00] claire yang[7d]: That lower left is too big, has to be reduced.. I say invade now is a good option...
[10:01] dlpigozzi[4k]: crowd forecast move 67 60 % for artem
[10:01] LVL79[4k]: Oo, Zaph is Rob Stark? Oo
[10:01] DeYanG77[?]: это проверочный и требует ответа
[10:01] Zaphodian[?]: I think W will get too strong on the left side and this makes it more difficult to attack H12 stones later
[10:01] robertmehl[14k]: Winter is here...
[10:01] dlpigozzi[4k]: if someone is analyzing it could compare with the AI
[10:01] MuYu[8k]: Alguien de España?
[10:02] Zaphodian[?]: It's always winter in my heart, Robert
[10:02] dlpigozzi[4k]: Hola Muyu
Move 68
[10:02] robertmehl[14k]: :))
[10:02] Zaphodian[?]: Why is W spending costly time...
[10:02] Zaphodian[?]: ok....
[10:02] MuYu[8k]: Hola, te hablo al pv
[10:03] pynxy[6d]: Going for the kill
[10:03] Puumanamana[2d]: b is supposed to be dead locally
[10:03] SardishGo[4k]: hello to all
[10:03] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: B will not die I think
[10:04] DeYanG77[?]: либо укреплять камень, или давить дальше h3
[10:04] Puumanamana[2d]: yes, each time I try to kill with moves like B5, the cut is too annoying to kill cleanly
[10:04] DeYanG77[?]: но сначала хочется h10
[10:04] kusrabs[5k]: <error> , I don't know is there an Eng version of a joke about Google, Microsoft and en electrician
[10:05] Zaphodian[?]: But maybe B plays tenuki now
Move 70
[10:05] Zaphodian[?]: L10 looks great
[10:05] pynxy[6d]: Ear redenning move
[10:05] DeYanG77[?]: f7 тогда
Move 71
[10:06] Zaphodian[?]: H10 looks good too though
[10:06] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: vital point
[10:07] brcoutme[4k]: Zaphodian pls. explain if you don't mind
[10:07] DeYanG77[?]: м5 надо поднять
Move 72
[10:07] mical[2d]: it threatens the cut at F11 and D12. I think
[10:07] Zaphodian[?]: It takes away an eye, it threatens to cut on two sides and it is a probe.
Move 73
[10:08] brcoutme[4k]: ah OK thanks
[10:08] Zaphodian[?]: K14 looks nice - I didn;t think of that
[10:08] Zaphodian[?]: W can cut now
[10:08] Puumanamana[2d]: but can't black answer G11 to E10 ? then it might not be sente
Move 74
[10:09] Puumanamana[2d]: hmm, there might be problems with the shape with G11 though
[10:09] mical[2d]: E10 G11 H11 still threatens cutting on G12 and G10.
[10:09] mical[2d]: so black has to respond and G11 H11 becomes a bad exchange I think
Move 75
[10:09] Zaphodian[?]: It would not be sente but then W would know what to play next and fix his own shape with H11
Move 78
[10:10] DeYanG77[?]: L12
[10:10] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: vital point again
Move 81
[10:11] DeYanG77[?]: k10
[10:11] SardishGo[4k]: W k10?
[10:11] Puumanamana[2d]: I'd be worried as white
[10:11] DeYanG77[?]: потом h11
[10:12] mical[2d]: E10 and then white should perhaps settle the N10 group.
[10:12] Zaphodian[?]: Yes, maybe Artem will play N12
[10:12] Zaphodian[?]: Artem does not like to take risks
[10:13] SardishGo[4k]: N12 does not guarantee two eyes
[10:13] Puumanamana[2d]: it's better than tenukiing
Move 82
[10:14] SardishGo[4k]: godd to fight - W should looking for a nice KO
Move 85
[10:17] kusrabs[5k]: И вот он, поворотный момент. Сейчас ровнее некуда.
Move 90
[10:18] DeYanG77[?]: о9
[10:18] DeYanG77[?]: q11
Move 92
[10:19] DeYanG77[?]: h11 теперь
Move 93
[10:19] SardishGo[4k]: B in j8?
[10:20] SardishGo[4k]: M7 to save W?
Move 94
[10:21] Puumanamana[2d]: finally zaph's peep ^^
Move 97
[10:22] DeYanG77[?]: д12 думаю был бы логичней
Move 98
[10:23] CarloTibaldi[1d]: it seems W has 2 groups with no eye :-(
[10:23] mical[2d]: this fight looks complicated
[10:23] Zaphodian[?]: Well, my weakness is that I am too focussed on small details in the fight and sometimes forget about the whole board.
[10:24] Zaphodian[?]: Artem has a much more balanced style than I.
[10:24] Zaphodian[?]: But that's also the reason that he sometimes shies away from a fight.
[10:24] CarloTibaldi[1d]: but in this case he seems to be a bit too risky
[10:24] Zaphodian[?]: I don;t think he is taking risks
[10:25] Zaphodian[?]: he is constantly limiting risks, I think.
[10:25] SardishGo[4k]: B in M7 = W in trouble?
[10:25] CarloTibaldi[1d]: right group seems to be cut
[10:26] SardishGo[4k]: salve Casrlo - finalmente qualche italiano :-)
Move 100
[10:26] CarloTibaldi[1d]: :-)
[10:26] Zaphodian[?]: B could attack on the right. and there would be a ko fight at A-B all the time.
Move 101
[10:27] Puumanamana[2d]: I wonder why b didnt exchange Q11 or O9 before all this
Move 102
[10:28] CarloTibaldi[1d]: right, but that ko seems bad for white who has another weak group
[10:28] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: B's threat
Move 103
[10:28] de4e6496db954858[2k]: H18?
Move 107
[10:29] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Cut does not work now
Move 109
[10:29] Zaphodian[?]: OUCH
Move 110
[10:29] Zaphodian[?]: now B can cut
[10:30] pynxy[6d]: W can connectu up?
Move 111
[10:30] de4e6496db954858[2k]: YES MAYBE
[10:30] Zaphodian[?]: BUT
[10:30] mical[2d]: isn't E16 sente?
[10:31] DeYanG77[?]: на КО не стал бы становиться, слишком важный пункт
[10:31] Wasser Bjorn[5d]: oof
[10:31] de4e6496db954858[2k]: Variation: maybe
[10:31] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: W can connect underneath
[10:31] LVL79[4k]: go go Artem!
[10:32] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: No maybes
[10:32] kusrabs[5k]: <error> , сегодня мы в разных лагерях )))
[10:32] ofer.zivony[5d]: doesn't b have stuff against the corner?
[10:32] Zaphodian[?]: no
Move 113
[10:32] mical[2d]: oh dear this hurts
[10:33] ofer.zivony[5d]: well.. w can cut the 4 stones
[10:33] pynxy[6d]: there is ko connection
[10:33] ofer.zivony[5d]: that's some compensation
Move 117
[10:33] Zaphodian[?]: ko
[10:33] Zaphodian[?]: not so good for W
[10:33] ilop[1k]: Variation: 17
[10:34] Zaphodian[?]: W got tricked in a bad bad way
[10:34] de4e6496db954858[2k]: oh no
[10:34] DeYanG77[?]: f19
Move 118
[10:34] NicelyManifest[1d]: seems odd that W did not connect at F14
[10:34] pynxy[6d]: but teh corner dies if w loses ko
[10:34] LVL79[4k]: kusrabs, так что там за анекдот про электрика? ))
Move 121
[10:34] Zaphodian[?]: F14 was also wrong
[10:34] Zaphodian[?]: so, ko
Move 122
[10:35] mical[2d]: ko is too big?
[10:35] mical[2d]: if white wins the ko all the black group is also in trouble right
[10:35] ofer.zivony[5d]: seems dead. yeah
[10:35] pynxy[6d]: if w takes at d19 w corner can die
[10:36] de4e6496db954858[2k]: it's so exciting
[10:36] pynxy[6d]: b takes*
Move 123
[10:36] kusrabs[5k]: what a game!
Move 124
[10:36] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: big exchange is possible
Move 125
[10:37] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: alternative
[10:37] mical[2d]: give up?
[10:37] ofer.zivony[5d]: gote is a bummer
[10:37] de4e6496db954858[2k]: I think white will place k18
[10:37] kusrabs[5k]: A.D. wrote in his group some exciting words about Oskar's game. Seems everybody was inspired with it.
[10:37] LVL79[4k]: never give up
[10:37] ofer.zivony[5d]: f11 is very big
[10:37] mical[2d]: I mean give up the two stones
[10:38] bERt0r[1k]: can w just k18 and make an eye there?
[10:38] Zaphodian[?]: Yes, never give up. I have won many lost games in the past.
[10:38] mical[2d]: but looks gote after K18
[10:38] ys3[3d]: this fischer adds 20 seconds per move
[10:38] dlpigozzi[4k]: can u link it kusrabs?
[10:38] ys3[3d]: could be some tim epressure soon
[10:38] ys3[3d]: that brief disconnect window was worrying
Move 128
[10:39] ys3[3d]: there we go
Move 129
[10:39] Zaphodian[?]: Gote? what kind of word is that? Every move is in principle gote - the question is whether it's good or not.
Move 130
[10:39] de4e6496db954858[2k]: b11?
[10:39] kusrabs[5k]: <error> , https://vk.com/wall-84673794_12390 . Later I can translate it, if you need
Move 131
[10:39] ofer.zivony[5d]: having to end up with this move is painful
[10:39] bERt0r[1k]: called it!
[10:39] NicelyManifest[1d]: Zaph - why the inverse pedancy? You know what is meant here
[10:39] ofer.zivony[5d]: k17 I mean
[10:39] dlpigozzi[4k]: thx
Move 132
[10:40] bERt0r[1k]: w wants to slay the dragon
[10:40] ys3[3d]: i want sure if B could allow b11
Move 134
[10:40] ys3[3d]: but lets find out
[10:40] ys3[3d]: wasnt*
[10:40] filip.diloom[2d]: B12 still an eye?
[10:40] mical[2d]: B12 is alive locally right?
[10:40] mical[2d]: black just doesn't want to gote B12
[10:40] ys3[3d]: ah so it is. sneaky other eyes
[10:41] Puumanamana[2d]: I guess b should play F14 before living
[10:41] Zaphodian[?]: Come to think of it, Maybe W should have played K17 at K16 because that would give W a certain cutting point at L15 later
Move 138
[10:41] Zaphodian[?]: that gave W 38 seconds extra
[10:41] CarloTibaldi[1d]: why B is playing ko threats?
[10:41] Wasser Bjorn[5d]: this game is giving me ptsd
[10:42] Mardipaev[4d]: b12 is an eye, gote but still, should be enough to win no?
[10:42] DeYanG77[?]: G8
Move 140
[10:42] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: too painful
Move 142
[10:43] mical[2d]: not sure it's enough to win. Too close IMO, especially with sente white can kill the bottom left corner.
Move 143
[10:44] de4e6496db954858[2k]: nice
[10:45] kusrabs[5k]: a bit more painful is attack of L5 or M5
Move 146
[10:46] tymak[2d]: what is the status of C3 stone?
Move 148
[10:47] fightyoats[4d]: if i was playing black, it would die
[10:47] fightyoats[4d]: if i was playing white it would live
[10:47] mical[2d]: :D I know that feeling
[10:47] Puumanamana[2d]: locally dead, but lot of aji
[10:47] DeYanG77[?]: P5
[10:47] Yossy[1d]: P7
[10:47] bERt0r[1k]: w wants to kill dragons :P
[10:47] aloisp[2d]: fightyoats .... we have something in common :)
Move 149
[10:48] tymak[2d]: I was thinking something around H3 for w to reduce corner aji and pretend that b bottom group is under pressure
[10:48] bERt0r[1k]: this is an attack on the middle black group
[10:48] LVL79[4k]: B has a 8 times more time then W...
[10:48] Puumanamana[2d]: @tymak, I was thinking the same actually
[10:48] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Vital point now, but maybe aji in the corner
[10:48] mical[2d]: I think white's exchange is to remove threats from the dragon being dead.
[10:48] mical[2d]: or being attacked
Move 151
[10:49] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: B will counterattack
Move 152
[10:49] kusrabs[5k]: I was: please, penates, make A.D. play d3... And he plays even better!
[10:50] brcoutme[4k]: I thought he might time out for a second there.
[10:50] DeYanG77[?]: c4 логичней был
[10:50] DeYanG77[?]: e4
[10:50] kusrabs[5k]: e2 -- и он жив, верно?
[10:51] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: trouble?
[10:51] Puumanamana[2d]: b4 feels like a lost ko threat
[10:51] bERt0r[1k]: does L15 work for white?
Move 153
[10:52] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: hard to kill
Move 154
[10:52] Zaphodian[?]: So G2 looks like a bad move.
Move 155
[10:52] ys3[3d]: i think W has a slight lead if he keeps the corner
Move 157
[10:53] bERt0r[1k]: not if w dies in the middle :P
Move 163
[10:54] Zaphodian[?]: Using the aji in the corner as ko threats could be very smart
Move 165
[10:54] Russian[5d]: Variation: beasts
[10:54] Zaphodian[?]: hmmm, this could derail the game completely
[10:55] ys3[3d]: time pressure...
Move 166
[10:55] bERt0r[1k]: @Russian I wanna upvote you
[10:55] bERt0r[1k]: :D
[10:55] GaJ[5k]: +1
[10:55] jsikkema8[4k]: +1
Move 167
[10:56] brcoutme[4k]: +1
[10:56] Zaphodian[?]: It's always hard to predict the future...
[10:56] Russian[5d]: ))
Move 170
[10:56] Ten[1p]: Looks tough for white, time trouble and thin shapes around
[10:56] Zaphodian[?]: I think Diner might win now
[10:57] OlegGorchakov[2k]: J5
[10:57] kusrabs[5k]: I hope so. I think he deserved it now.
[10:57] Zaphodian[?]: No
Move 171
[10:57] kusrabs[5k]: And than they will tiebreak, right?
Move 172
[10:58] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: unkillable
[10:59] dlpigozzi[4k]: move 170 crowd forecast 60% for Diner :P
[10:59] bERt0r[1k]: what do you guys think about n17
[10:59] dlpigozzi[4k]: im gonna check what the AI says at the end
[10:59] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: how to resist this ko?
Move 174
[10:59] kusrabs[5k]: A.D. should think faster...
[11:00] Zaphodian[?]: I hate to make that forecast, but I think we have no choice at this point
Move 178
[11:01] kusrabs[5k]: please, no timeouts now...
[11:01] ys3[3d]: both in time pressure now so this could be fun. or not
Move 180
[11:02] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: better than the game
Move 181
[11:02] kusrabs[5k]: no fun with Javascript, stealing time
Move 193
[11:05] LVL79[4k]: b10
[11:05] ys3[3d]: has to go for it
Move 196
[11:07] Puumanamana[2d]: b10 would be pretty bad actually, it's gote
Move 197
[11:07] LVL79[4k]: no, Its sente!
[11:07] pynxy[6d]: Black p6?
Move 200
[11:07] Puumanamana[2d]: b10 d11 a12
Move 201
[11:08] Puumanamana[2d]: c11*
Move 202
[11:08] LVL79[4k]: and d13
[11:08] wurfmau3[5d]: b10 for which player?
[11:08] LVL79[4k]: and dragon is die
Move 203
[11:09] dlpigozzi[4k]: A3
[11:09] kusrabs[5k]: j3 gives a hope to W
[11:09] mathbatler[2d]: A3 C1
Move 208
[11:11] ys3[3d]: time for counting
[11:11] Ten[1p]: Show’s over
Move 211
[11:11] kusrabs[5k]: not yet...
[11:11] mical[2d]: so painful
Move 214
[11:12] SardishGo[4k]: ice black
Move 218
[11:13] Zaphodian[?]: I was making breakfast and came back and now I am thinking Artem is having breakfast for breakfast...
[11:13] pynxy[6d]: close game
[11:13] dlpigozzi[4k]: u change again your bet Zaph?
[11:14] pynxy[6d]: breakfast at noon??
Move 219
[11:14] kusrabs[5k]: it was a mistake at o6
[11:14] ys3[3d]: theres never a bad time to have breakfast
[11:14] Zaphodian[?]: I got too excited, forgot about breakfast when I started watching this game
[11:15] bERt0r[1k]: k16?
Move 221
[11:16] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: W declares victory
Move 223
[11:16] ys3[3d]: yeah W got enough compensation on bottom i think
Move 226
[11:17] pynxy[6d]: breakfast is an endgame master tho...
[11:17] Zaphodian[?]: Too late for that
Move 230
[11:18] Zaphodian[?]: and more declarations of victory
[11:18] kusrabs[5k]: White still can do a mistake as well as b
Move 232
[11:18] ys3[3d]: f5 was a bad threat then?
[11:18] kusrabs[5k]: o6 was a self-killing
[11:20] pynxy[6d]: d8 for b
Move 239
[11:21] bERt0r[1k]: e9 for w not sente?
[11:22] Zaphodian[?]: no
[11:22] bERt0r[1k]: f8 i guess
[11:22] ys3[3d]: it would force b g8
[11:22] ys3[3d]: which w doesnt want
[11:22] Yezurof[2d]: No, because G8 is sente for black
Move 241
[11:23] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: keep winning
Move 242
[11:23] bERt0r[1k]: yay
[11:23] bERt0r[1k]: i was waiting for this
Move 246
[11:24] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: last chance for B
Move 247
[11:25] Zaphodian[?]: Ofc, W 8 and 10 are greedy and then it can become a ko.
Move 249
[11:25] creatspirit[3d]: what was L18 ?
[11:25] gasana[5d]: i was wondering as well
[11:26] creatspirit[3d]: looks like misclick ...
[11:26] bERt0r[1k]: resign please move?
Move 250
[11:26] creatspirit[3d]: xD
Move 251
[11:26] creatspirit[3d]: i doubt w can do taht#
[11:26] Zaphodian[?]: oops, this looks very risky
Move 253
[11:26] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: what!?!?
Move 254
[11:26] creatspirit[3d]: ???
[11:27] creatspirit[3d]: what happend??
[11:27] claire yang[7d]: they both didn't saw it
[11:27] creatspirit[3d]: omg
[11:27] Zaphodian[?]: B is reading it
[11:27] ys3[3d]: good thing theres time pressure
Move 255
[11:27] Аlрhа - 1 5 2[?]: Variation: 18
Move 256
[11:27] creatspirit[3d]: lucky w
[11:27] martin97[4d]: h3 h4 h2 j1?
[11:27] Palko[2p]: H3 h2 would have killed?
[11:27] bERt0r[1k]: 4 at j1
Move 258
[11:28] dlpigozzi[4k]: white two eyes??!
Move 259
[11:28] Puumanamana[2d]: there's gonna a huge spike in the graph
[11:28] Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Huge ko, Alpha
Move 261
[11:29] kusrabs[5k]: weeeelll, as big as a hole in my heart... He was so close to win
Move 262
[11:29] Zaphodian[?]: Well, I am happy
Move 265
[11:30] claire yang[7d]: It's less about ko fight, than yose determined this game...
Move 266
[11:30] bERt0r[1k]: there was no ko there
Move 267
[11:31] Zaphodian[?]: why not?
[11:31] bERt0r[1k]: because w can capture
[11:31] BGlookwhai[9k]: ไทยครับ
[11:31] Zaphodian[?]: how?
Move 268
[11:31] bERt0r[1k]: j1 is mistake, w gotta play h1
Move 272
[11:32] Palko[2p]: H3 h2 h4 h1
[11:32] Palko[2p]: Would live
Move 273
[11:32] bERt0r[1k]: b can capture 5 stones and white captures back
Move 274
[11:33] Zaphodian[?]: I c
[11:33] Shinkenjoe[1d]: with a double under the stones nice
Move 275
[11:33] Palko[2p]: I messed up the order but you know what I mean
[11:33] Zaphodian[?]: Life but he would have lost
Move 279
[11:33] bERt0r[1k]: Variation: 19
[11:33] Zaphodian[?]: Yes, I got it
[11:34] bERt0r[1k]: Variation: h1 works
Move 288
[11:36] Zaphodian[?]: Hmmm, I wonder who would have won if B had played H3
Move 291
[11:37] Shinkenjoe[1d]: the better player
Move 296
[11:37] ourbaher[6k]: K9, why not?
Move 300
[11:38] Yezurof[2d]: W+4.5 ?
[11:38] Zaphodian[?]: I hate that nonsense: the better player often does not win, maybe like 49.9% of the cases.
Move 305
[11:38] bERt0r[1k]: the player with more points is going to win
[11:38] Zaphodian[?]: a truism
[11:39] 💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: gg!
[11:39] fightyoats[4d]: gg
[11:39] goodstyle[3d]: gg
[11:39] kusrabs[5k]: Напряженнейшая игра
[11:39] Zaphodian[?]: wow, 6.5!
[11:39] LVL79[4k]: Артем, вітаю!!!
[11:39] kusrabs[5k]: Thank you. Gg
[11:39] Zaphodian[?]: Congratulations, Artem
[11:39] robertmehl[14k]: Gg
[11:39] LT_[?]: gg
[11:39] 💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: that was exciting match to watch ^___^
[11:39] brcoutme[4k]: I would call that pretty even if it is only 50.1% of the time winning
[11:39] bERt0r[1k]: whoa AI
[11:39] daonata[7k]: Вітаю!
[11:40] Zaphodian[?]: The real world is not pretty at all. It is boring statistics.
[11:40] artem92[2p]: дякую
[11:40] bERt0r[1k]: f5 really the losing move?
[11:40] GaJ[5k]: Move 170 the crowd agreed with the AI
[11:41] kusrabs[5k]: <error> , was o6 a misclick?
[11:41] Porphyre[?]: sorry its no revision
[11:41] Porphyre[?]: my cat walked on my computer
[11:43] Zaphodian[?]: That's why cats are not allowed on the go board
[11:43] LVL79[4k]: игра очень напряженная была, соперники достойны друг друга
[11:58] LVL79[4k]: Ok, lets see the next game Stanislaw Frejlak (Poland) vs Anton Chernykh (Russia) at 13:30 CET

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