Unranked
Rules: Japanese
Processing
White wins by 6.5 points
Zaphodian[?]: Hi everybody
kusrabs[5k]: Удачи, Александр!!!
kusrabs[5k]: Hello, camarades
HongAnhKhoa[1d]: Hi everyone
Zaphodian[?]: So a new move by Diner. M4 is usually at N5
Handibot[9d+]: not exactly new
Handibot[9d+]: it's an old joseki
Move 20
Zaphodian[?]: It's not old - I don't think it exists as a joseki
Move 23
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: shape move
Goyer[4k]: but with p4 white made more sense for the black stone r6 - is it good ?
Zaphodian[?]: ??? no. But I do think K3 should be at R8
ys3[3d]: id feel more uncomfortable with w getting k3
OndraKruml[?]: not so easy to find next move for white, p2 looks a bit overplayish
ys3[3d]: black has room with the pincer being further
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Ok for B, but Diner does not like running groups
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Fine for B, but again, a little think.
dlpigozzi[4k]: so this is battle for the 1st position in the group and so avoiding Ilya next round
Handibot[9d+]: zaphodian if you ever have happened to have visited the OGS joseki site ou'll find the move.
dlpigozzi[4k]: important match
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: W gets overall thickness - invade later
suprinkonorta[14k]: let em play
ys3[3d]: its ok they cant see our chat
ys3[3d]: they wouldnt listen to us anyway
Zaphodian[?]: I don;t care about the joseki site. Anybody can input data there. In all of my 50 years of play, I have never seen it in a pro game.
nadoss[1d]: I'm curious why white didn't complete the upper left joseki
ys3[3d]: w can tenuki that
Move 24
Handibot[9d+]: ur 60?
ys3[3d]: thats interesting
Handibot[9d+]: wow.
nadoss[1d]: white typically plays B13 exchange before tenuki
Zaphodian[?]: Top left - OLD joseki, but very bad for W.
ys3[3d]: usually, yeah, but its not required if you have some other thing you want to do
💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: ohh r3 looks really passive
dlpigozzi[4k]: conservative I would say
💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: but i guess its very powerful against r6 stone
nadoss[1d]: you almost always choose between B13-C12 exchange, or you hane and connect to finish the pre-ai form
BlueFerrisWheel[5d]: tbh is move 19 really an old joseki
kusrabs[5k]: And now r6 can spread with r9
Zaphodian[?]: No, it's wishy-washy
BlueFerrisWheel[5d]: don't think so
Handibot[9d+]: Variation: 1
Handibot[9d+]: Top left is not "very bad for white," btw.
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: B can move at A of B IF he wants to pull out his marked stone.
OndraKruml[?]: i found three pro games with m4 ps.waltheri.net/database/game/78575/
BlueFerrisWheel[5d]: interesting
Handibot[9d+]: After AI appeared top white is a recommendation because white can attack as E15
BlueFerrisWheel[5d]: cause it looks really weird
ys3[3d]: the bot did point out that this move makes p6 less effective
ys3[3d]: cause the corners about alive on its own
nadoss[1d]: Handibot, the AI typically makes the B13 exchange, though, right??
Draco Huchins[3k]: hello!!!
Handibot[9d+]: in either way
dlpigozzi[4k]: you can test it empirically
Move 25
Handibot[9d+]: usually they do
Handibot[9d+]: but not necessarily if the stones on the side is the opponent's
dlpigozzi[4k]: b13 forces black to move
Palko[2p]: P8 is fancy, but... :)
dlpigozzi[4k]: kind of sente
Handibot[9d+]: yes, but after the move black's wall is thickened
Handibot[9d+]: but P8 isn't not quite effective.
Handibot[9d+]: isn't quite x
nadoss[1d]: I can see waiting until you understand how you want to deal with the upper side
nadoss[1d]: but the followup just seems sooo severe
Move 26
Zaphodian[?]: Hmmm, ic. One game only but it's quite different because in that game with Shin Jinseo, there is no stone at Q10
Handibot[9d+]: Variation: so this would be the first thought.
nadoss[1d]: Isn't B13 $*!% near sente for black?
ys3[3d]: q7 felt like the move that b wanted w to play
Zaphodian[?]: Handibot - no, that would be your last thought.
Handibot[9d+]: you can try to understand my variations, because I'm a tygem 8d, and analyzing the game with AI.
Zaphodian[?]: Instinctively, you don;t want to play it. But locally, it can be good.
dlpigozzi[4k]: I can see a new friendship developing in the chat :P
Move 27
Handibot[9d+]: Variation: or this would be the other move
dlpigozzi[4k]: this second one looks better for B
Handibot[9d+]: very often pros prefer "leaving the variations open for the later game" lol.
Zaphodian[?]: Not here
Handibot[9d+]: it's a habit type of thing
Handibot[9d+]: the two variations are nearly equal for AI
Handibot[9d+]: but as human I'd prefer the first one
Zaphodian[?]: So just to clear up what a joseki is. It is a STANDARD sequence that gives a fairly equal result.
Handibot[9d+]: As you wish, Mr. Z
Move 29
OndraKruml[?]: this should be good for black no?
Handibot[9d+]: not really
Zaphodian[?]: 3 games with a different stone present would not qualify that as a joseki. But it could still qualify as a good move, that is an entirely different thing.
Draco Huchins[3k]: i will play r13
Move 30
Handibot[9d+]: From the human perspective it's still undecided
Zaphodian[?]: R12 is the shape now
Zaphodian[?]: Looks weird, but B S8 is sente
Handibot[9d+]: after the local exchanges white has the chance to play Q16, so the regional results should be determined b the upper right angle
Draco Huchins[3k]: maybe ? dundundun!
Handibot[9d+]: Variation: white can tenuki though
Zaphodian[?]: Handibot, do you know Deepak Chopra?
Handibot[9d+]: the author?
Zaphodian[?]: yes
Zaphodian[?]: You write sentences like him.
AjiTae[2d]: ouch
Handibot[9d+]: in what ways
massmuss[10k]: how is a bot speaking? :o
Zaphodian[?]: So, you should really add "quantum" to your name.
Move 31
Draco Huchins[3k]: i like to fight
Zaphodian[?]: Well, you speak in sentences that have so much meaning that nobody understands it.
de4e6496db954858[2k]: LOL
AjiTae[2d]: massmuss: it's a really strong bot
Zaphodian[?]: that's OK, but you still have to be able to interpret it.
Handibot[9d+]: This move "ungood" for black
AjiTae[2d]: lol
Ufe[1d]: lol
Move 32
Handibot[9d+]: lollllll
Zaphodian[?]: You remember the very strong bot saying that the meaning of life is "42"?
Zaphodian[?]: I don;t doubt the veracity of the statement, but to humans it seems meaningless.
Move 33
Handibot[9d+]: Variation: white is alive.
Handibot[9d+]: yay.
Handibot[9d+]: I am improving to be understandable
dlpigozzi[4k]: open to interpretation
Handibot[9d+]: : )
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: human mind consistency
de4e6496db954858[2k]: UMM
dlpigozzi[4k]: anyway humans usually know what to understand before is even said
💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: please dont spam >___>
Handibot[9d+]: U spam, me sad.
Handibot[9d+]: Waaah Waaaah
dlpigozzi[4k]: back to the game
Move 34
dlpigozzi[4k]: who would choose to play right now?
S_Alexander[3d]: easy win for white?
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: more human mind consistency
Move 35
Zaphodian[?]: No, it's about even
Handibot[9d+]: Variation: this is the joseki move. However, it's not good for white.
Move 36
Knotwilg[4d]: LZ now recommends going back to S8
Draco Huchins[3k]: n16 PROtect the kut
Kanin[7d]: S8 is a large double sente
💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: pros dont lose games in 36 moves xD
ys3[3d]: id take white here but i wouldnt really feel ahead either
Draco Huchins[3k]: me no pro
de4e6496db954858[2k]: >o<
Zaphodian[?]: So Artem played the move I recommended, because it is a human move.
Draco Huchins[3k]: only pro in minecraft
Handibot[9d+]: Variation: possible
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Don't connect - W is heavy , B plays 2 or A
Handibot[9d+]: Variation: probe
Draco Huchins[3k]: i like p12
dlpigozzi[4k]: Does someone know why Diner is not playing the pro league?
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Meaning of the bot's recommendation to play at 10 for B instead of at 1
Draco Huchins[3k]: Variation: somewhere here, I think
Zaphodian[?]: Diner is not invited because he is not a europro
Draco Huchins[3k]: bruh
dlpigozzi[4k]: where is he a pro?
JustRegistered[?]: Hi Handibot, I just registered to be able to write, can you please stop suggesting moves that only AI would play? it's so annoying
Handibot[9d+]: Variation: or this
Zaphodian[?]: Korea
dlpigozzi[4k]: thx zaph
kusrabs[5k]: But does it matter where is a gamer a pro?
Handibot[9d+]: wdym by "only AI would play"
Zaphodian[?]: Well, yes, it does matter.
gaxxlol[3d]: They did consider inviting Asian pros who are popular in the West (I think Antti was mentioned in the stream several times)
Zaphodian[?]: A Europro can not play in Korea as a pro.
Draco Huchins[3k]: why?
kusrabs[5k]: Strange, actually. Somebody have to make a politic decision about that.
ronin3[1k]: they did not qualify under the same rules, for one
Ufe[1d]: I am also curious about AI recommendations. I dont think its any harm to check
Kanin[7d]: Europros have been spotted playing in the Chinese league
dlpigozzi[4k]: second, the level in koprea is quite distant than europe
Zaphodian[?]: Yes, the problem with Antii is that he is a Nihon Kiin pro. The NK won;t let it's pros play in not-recognized tournaments.
Move 37
ronin3[1k]: well there's that Chinese training thing going on for some years now, in'it?
Kanin[7d]: this connect looks incredibly slow
Draco Huchins[3k]: thats wierd
Zaphodian[?]: Europros are sometimes invites and they need a sponsor to play.
Zaphodian[?]: R10 is very slow
Handibot[9d+]: very rarely though
Ufe[1d]: wouldnt s11 be better than r11 if we were going to play r10
ronin3[1k]: or maybe it's a political thing - the Chinese want to be a bit more open than the Koreans, so long term this will mean more ties with Europe... idk
Handibot[9d+]: And sadly they never appear in the first tier
Zaphodian[?]: for a human S8 would be good enough now.
ronin3[1k]: S8 P12 though
Zaphodian[?]: Well, the Europro system was set up by Chinese sponsorship in the first place.
Kanin[7d]: I guess C6 or L14 are good choices now
Draco Huchins[3k]: very slow
de4e6496db954858[2k]: I like P12
Handibot[9d+]: Yes. I've heard that is was intended as a cultural outpus
Handibot[9d+]: it*
Zaphodian[?]: They play at their actual strength. So Ilya will soon be 4p. I think he really plays around that level in Korea or China.
Move 38
Draco Huchins[3k]: r9 and r11 are safe right?
OndraKruml[?]: r10 seems so slow :O
ronin3[1k]: haha, artem 1 zaphod 0 :-)
Move 39
ys3[3d]: even if you just reverse the order, you often wouldnt really play r11 after r10
ronin3[1k]: for now yes, Draco
Draco Huchins[3k]: i dont understand
Zaphodian[?]: J17 is probably not an AI recommendation, but it shows human kiai (i.e. fighting spirit).
Handibot[9d+]: Ilya would be around the level of a strong amateur 6 dan in China.
ronin3[1k]: I must remember the shape after M17
Move 40
Draco Huchins[3k]: k14 should be ok
ronin3[1k]: (is there a bookmark function here on ogs?)
nadoss[1d]: b slow everywhere
ronin3[1k]: like for a screenshot or something
Kanin[7d]: Strong Chinese amateur 6d is stronger than many professional players
ronin3[1k]: aw :(
Draco Huchins[3k]: do command shift 4
Draco Huchins[3k]: screenshot
Handibot[9d+]: yes... The Chinese amateur system is rather strange
kusrabs[5k]: <error> , you can move by arrows left and right and make your variation.
Handibot[9d+]: Variation: G16 is also a bit slow, for black can connect at O18
Handibot[9d+]: Variation: this attacs black
ronin3[1k]: yay thanks kusrabs
Move 41
💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: i thought that age limit for taking pro exams in china is 25, so there are plenty of very strong amas who are too old to become pro
ronin3[1k]: Variation: Must remember this shape
Move 42
Handibot[9d+]: not entirely...
Move 43
Yezurof[2d]: It's not that the amateur system is weird, it's mostly that pro level 20 years ago was rather low compare to today top amateur level
Handibot[9d+]: There are many ways to become a pro.
Zaphodian[?]: It is kind of meaningless to say that he would be like a strong 6d amateur in China. For example, the strongest players who live in Europe are both called Kim and they are Korean amateurs, but actually they just fell short of the pro exam at the age limit.
ys3[3d]: well even now, china 5d is a weird concept and could be fleshed out better
Draco Huchins[3k]: black is losing ;C
Zaphodian[?]: N18 would ne nice now
Move 44
Zaphodian[?]: nobody is losing yet
Kanin[7d]: Correct, can be 4-5 stones difference between 5d in China. However, 6d is almost always incredibly strong
Handibot[9d+]: Several competitions offer the certificate to either amateur 7d (the highest Chinese amateur ranking) or pro.
hanh88695[5d]: those Chinese amateur player just don't want to travel for a offline rank games, some of them are way better than 6d or 5d
Handibot[9d+]: Well. 5d is about OGS 1k-OGS 9d... You never know.
Zaphodian[?]: Even if you look at an AI and it gives a score of 65% or so, it's almost meaningless.
Move 49
dlpigozzi[4k]: nadoss question is solved
Handibot[9d+]: Most professionals nowadays keep the game untilted until 60-80 ish move
Draco Huchins[3k]: black play slow moves
Zaphodian[?]: J14 looks like the shape or maybe at J15
Zaphodian[?]: H14 is another shape move.
Draco Huchins[3k]: g14 is good-ish
Zaphodian[?]: Then again, W could start a fight by playing at Q13 or so
Move 50
Draco Huchins[3k]: bruhhhh
Handibot[9d+]: All those shape moves look very fancy.
Zaphodian[?]: No, those are common shapes.
Handibot[9d+]: AI recommends N18
ofer.zivony[5d]: This jump looks a bit strange though
Move 51
Zaphodian[?]: I don't care, although I mentioned that move a few moves ago.
dlpigozzi[4k]: too late
Draco Huchins[3k]: Variation: white is trapped
Kanin[7d]: I think Breakfast is going to win this one
dlpigozzi[4k]: B is aware
Kanin[7d]: He loves this kind of solid position
ofer.zivony[5d]: probably this move is also a mistake though
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Human strategy
Handibot[9d+]: Yeah sure, a go player who has played for 40 years refuses stubbornly anything unseen, calling it "unhuman" and "not worth caring. I'm literally moved to tears. Learned a lot from the spirit.
DeYanG77[?]: привет
Move 52
Draco Huchins[3k]: handibot is wierd
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: untrapped
Handibot[9d+]: teach me, master, now did your purely human brain know that the AI winrate is 65%.
Kanin[7d]: Handibot, can we try to keep it to English, please?
Handibot[9d+]: You are analyzing the game with an AI right beside you, and saying that all of those are "human strategies."
Zaphodian[?]: No, you misinterpret. There is a vast difference of how a human looks at a go game and how an AI looks at it.
ys3[3d]: koba mentioned earlier that there was a channel where bot owners roleplayed where they pretend to be bots, im starting to be more convinced that its real
dlpigozzi[4k]: is this a turing test?
Draco Huchins[3k]: Variation: trap the trapper
Draco Huchins[3k]: ish
Zaphodian[?]: How so, Handibot? The meaning of G14 is that W wants to attack at C10 or C9 ASAP
Draco Huchins[3k]: based on their playing tactic
Move 56
Zaphodian[?]: C10 now is quite good though
Zaphodian[?]: there you go
Draco Huchins[3k]: huh
Zaphodian[?]: It's very human to play there.
Move 57
Handibot[9d+]: sure. It's also very human to say "Even if you look at an AI and it gives a score of 65% or so, it's almost meaningless."
Yezurof[2d]: Won't white end with 2 weak groups (G14 and C10) ?
Zaphodian[?]: But I might have wanted to play K15/ M14 first because now W has less eye-space
Draco Huchins[3k]: maybe
Handibot[9d+]: Since when could humans estimate winrate
Move 58
Draco Huchins[3k]: l14 is trippy
Move 59
Zaphodian[?]: Yes, even if it's at 80% or so, usually, we have little idea who is better.
Move 60
Kanin[7d]: Depends on the situation. Not all 80% leads are made equal, I guess :D
Zaphodian[?]: At 90%, usually we now who is better, but even then in close combat, for a human it would be very difficult to find the correct move. all the time.
OlegGorchakov[2k]: Александр давай!
dlpigozzi[4k]: we can make a crowd forecast
💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: well you know, even 80% is only few points ahead
MuYu[8k]: Would you pass me the tournament page?
LVL79[4k]: Артем, давай, порви Александра!!!
Handibot[9d+]: Variation: this seems quite natural
MuYu[8k]: TY dlpigozzi
💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: even on empty board, game without komi is only about 88% for black
Move 61
Zaphodian[?]: E12 is the human shape now
Zaphodian[?]: so he plays it.
💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: and thats just 6 points
dlpigozzi[4k]: crowd forecast: B wins
dlpigozzi[4k]: come on
dlpigozzi[4k]: participate
kusrabs[5k]: Seems A.D. found better three %-s. If he rounds white group and makes Artem to defend it, it will be crash for white.
Move 62
Handibot[9d+]: wow. Impressive.
Zaphodian[?]: No, I think Artem will and should win.
Handibot[9d+]: H12 is the human shape how, and he plays it
dlpigozzi[4k]: 50%
dlpigozzi[4k]: more plartipants
dlpigozzi[4k]: the bigger the better
💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: i'm cheering for artem here, go egf!
💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: ^^
dlpigozzi[4k]: 66 for artem
Draco Huchins[3k]: go white
Draco Huchins[3k]: gogogo
DeYanG77[?]: f10
dlpigozzi[4k]: draco, is it a vote?
LVL79[4k]: go white!
OndraKruml[?]: d7
Handibot[9d+]: why don't we predict the next pseudo concept "human choice"?
Move 63
Handibot[9d+]: I go with K14 or J13
dlpigozzi[4k]: handi, even if ai u r invited to vote
kusrabs[5k]: I hope A.D. wins ))) And then -- Pavol. And we (I suppose it's not a misreading of rules) we have tiebreak in group.
Draco Huchins[3k]: nani?
Move 64
brcoutme[4k]: Handibot why don't you watch and discuss the game, instead of trying to pick fights?
Draco Huchins[3k]: why did white do that
Handibot[9d+]: I am discussing, I have a lot to learn
Kanin[7d]: H11 attach
dlpigozzi[4k]: move 62 crowd predicted 66% for artem
Zaphodian[?]: J15/ H14 exchange was very nice for B
Draco Huchins[3k]: it is very slow
DeYanG77[?]: h16
Kanin[7d]: if black can get strong in the center he can attack the white stones on the left severely
Zaphodian[?]: J13 G12 E10 would be the most severe
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: W's peep at 4 helps a lot
Draco Huchins[3k]: maybe
Handibot[9d+]: I think to develop center influence black needs to build one at E10
kusrabs[5k]: black can prepare the attack by h17 or g17
dlpigozzi[4k]: I see a lot of cash for B
Handibot[9d+]: yes, master zaph's variation is exactly the AI variation. However, I can't say that's the human thought unless he admits. ^ . ^
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Natural, but how to prevent a B peep at A next?
Move 65
Draco Huchins[3k]: ma hamster is bored
kusrabs[5k]: AI has no own variations, to be honest. It's all human thoughts, programmed and packed to the memory of proc.
Move 66
ys3[3d]: handi, you claimed youre a tygem 8d but wouldnt you realize that sequence is fairly natural?
Zaphodian[?]: nonsense
ys3[3d]: zaph is europe 7d, maybe youd be better off not trolling
Zaphodian[?]: E10 seems wishy-washy to me
ys3[3d]: its really cringe that youre cosplaying a bot tbh
DeYanG77[?]: тогда h10
Draco Huchins[3k]: oh daryl is here
Draco Huchins[3k]: ima going to sleep
DeYanG77[?]: k10
Puumanamana[2d]: not really @kusrabs, it was the 1st versions of alphago. Now many AIs have self-learning mechanisms
Move 67
DeYanG77[?]: тож давно пора
Zaphodian[?]: I would play D7 at E10 though.
dlpigozzi[4k]: anyone else for the poll? who wins?
Draco Huchins[3k]: black
Zaphodian[?]: C4 and sometimes B5 are standard moves now
LVL79[4k]: draw)
Draco Huchins[3k]: wins the corner
brcoutme[4k]: artem (white) is my vote.
kusrabs[5k]: <error> , I'd agree to you, but... I'm a programmer and electrician from that anecdote
dlpigozzi[4k]: crowd forecast move 67 50 %
Zaphodian[?]: I think C3 is too early
pynxy[6d]: Zaph is Rob?
mical[2d]: do you think black should have build more influence attacking the white stones before invading?
Zaphodian[?]: yup
Puumanamana[2d]: Well, I work in AI as well so what's your point ?
claire yang[7d]: That lower left is too big, has to be reduced.. I say invade now is a good option...
dlpigozzi[4k]: crowd forecast move 67 60 % for artem
LVL79[4k]: Oo, Zaph is Rob Stark? Oo
DeYanG77[?]: это проверочный и требует ответа
Zaphodian[?]: I think W will get too strong on the left side and this makes it more difficult to attack H12 stones later
robertmehl[14k]: Winter is here...
dlpigozzi[4k]: if someone is analyzing it could compare with the AI
MuYu[8k]: Alguien de España?
Zaphodian[?]: It's always winter in my heart, Robert
dlpigozzi[4k]: Hola Muyu
Move 68
robertmehl[14k]: :))
Zaphodian[?]: Why is W spending costly time...
Zaphodian[?]: ok....
MuYu[8k]: Hola, te hablo al pv
pynxy[6d]: Going for the kill
Puumanamana[2d]: b is supposed to be dead locally
SardishGo[4k]: hello to all
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: B will not die I think
DeYanG77[?]: либо укреплять камень, или давить дальше h3
Puumanamana[2d]: yes, each time I try to kill with moves like B5, the cut is too annoying to kill cleanly
DeYanG77[?]: но сначала хочется h10
kusrabs[5k]: <error> , I don't know is there an Eng version of a joke about Google, Microsoft and en electrician
Zaphodian[?]: But maybe B plays tenuki now
Move 70
Zaphodian[?]: L10 looks great
pynxy[6d]: Ear redenning move
DeYanG77[?]: f7 тогда
Move 71
Zaphodian[?]: H10 looks good too though
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: vital point
brcoutme[4k]: Zaphodian pls. explain if you don't mind
DeYanG77[?]: м5 надо поднять
Move 72
mical[2d]: it threatens the cut at F11 and D12. I think
Zaphodian[?]: It takes away an eye, it threatens to cut on two sides and it is a probe.
Move 73
brcoutme[4k]: ah OK thanks
Zaphodian[?]: K14 looks nice - I didn;t think of that
Zaphodian[?]: W can cut now
Puumanamana[2d]: but can't black answer G11 to E10 ? then it might not be sente
Move 74
Puumanamana[2d]: hmm, there might be problems with the shape with G11 though
mical[2d]: E10 G11 H11 still threatens cutting on G12 and G10.
mical[2d]: so black has to respond and G11 H11 becomes a bad exchange I think
Move 75
Zaphodian[?]: It would not be sente but then W would know what to play next and fix his own shape with H11
Move 78
DeYanG77[?]: L12
de4e6496db954858[2k]: L12
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: vital point again
Move 81
DeYanG77[?]: k10
SardishGo[4k]: W k10?
Puumanamana[2d]: I'd be worried as white
DeYanG77[?]: потом h11
mical[2d]: E10 and then white should perhaps settle the N10 group.
Zaphodian[?]: Yes, maybe Artem will play N12
Zaphodian[?]: Artem does not like to take risks
SardishGo[4k]: N12 does not guarantee two eyes
Puumanamana[2d]: it's better than tenukiing
Move 82
SardishGo[4k]: godd to fight - W should looking for a nice KO
Move 85
kusrabs[5k]: И вот он, поворотный момент. Сейчас ровнее некуда.
Move 90
DeYanG77[?]: о9
DeYanG77[?]: q11
Move 92
DeYanG77[?]: h11 теперь
Move 93
SardishGo[4k]: B in j8?
SardishGo[4k]: M7 to save W?
Move 94
Puumanamana[2d]: finally zaph's peep ^^
Move 97
DeYanG77[?]: д12 думаю был бы логичней
Move 98
CarloTibaldi[1d]: it seems W has 2 groups with no eye :-(
mical[2d]: this fight looks complicated
Zaphodian[?]: Well, my weakness is that I am too focussed on small details in the fight and sometimes forget about the whole board.
Zaphodian[?]: Artem has a much more balanced style than I.
Zaphodian[?]: But that's also the reason that he sometimes shies away from a fight.
CarloTibaldi[1d]: but in this case he seems to be a bit too risky
Zaphodian[?]: I don;t think he is taking risks
Zaphodian[?]: he is constantly limiting risks, I think.
SardishGo[4k]: B in M7 = W in trouble?
CarloTibaldi[1d]: right group seems to be cut
SardishGo[4k]: salve Casrlo - finalmente qualche italiano :-)
Move 100
CarloTibaldi[1d]: :-)
Zaphodian[?]: B could attack on the right. and there would be a ko fight at A-B all the time.
Move 101
Puumanamana[2d]: I wonder why b didnt exchange Q11 or O9 before all this
Move 102
CarloTibaldi[1d]: right, but that ko seems bad for white who has another weak group
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: B's threat
Move 103
de4e6496db954858[2k]: H18?
Move 107
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Cut does not work now
Move 109
Zaphodian[?]: OUCH
Move 110
Zaphodian[?]: now B can cut
pynxy[6d]: W can connectu up?
Move 111
de4e6496db954858[2k]: YES MAYBE
Zaphodian[?]: BUT
mical[2d]: isn't E16 sente?
DeYanG77[?]: на КО не стал бы становиться, слишком важный пункт
Wasser Bjorn[5d]: oof
de4e6496db954858[2k]: Variation: maybe
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: W can connect underneath
LVL79[4k]: go go Artem!
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: No maybes
kusrabs[5k]: <error> , сегодня мы в разных лагерях )))
ofer.zivony[5d]: doesn't b have stuff against the corner?
Zaphodian[?]: no
Move 113
mical[2d]: oh dear this hurts
ofer.zivony[5d]: well.. w can cut the 4 stones
pynxy[6d]: there is ko connection
ofer.zivony[5d]: that's some compensation
Move 117
Zaphodian[?]: ko
Zaphodian[?]: not so good for W
ilop[1k]: Variation: 17
Zaphodian[?]: W got tricked in a bad bad way
de4e6496db954858[2k]: oh no
DeYanG77[?]: f19
Move 118
NicelyManifest[1d]: seems odd that W did not connect at F14
pynxy[6d]: but teh corner dies if w loses ko
LVL79[4k]: kusrabs, так что там за анекдот про электрика? ))
Move 121
Zaphodian[?]: F14 was also wrong
Zaphodian[?]: so, ko
Move 122
mical[2d]: ko is too big?
mical[2d]: if white wins the ko all the black group is also in trouble right
ofer.zivony[5d]: seems dead. yeah
pynxy[6d]: if w takes at d19 w corner can die
de4e6496db954858[2k]: it's so exciting
pynxy[6d]: b takes*
Move 123
kusrabs[5k]: what a game!
Move 124
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: big exchange is possible
Move 125
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: alternative
mical[2d]: give up?
ofer.zivony[5d]: gote is a bummer
de4e6496db954858[2k]: I think white will place k18
kusrabs[5k]: A.D. wrote in his group some exciting words about Oskar's game. Seems everybody was inspired with it.
LVL79[4k]: never give up
ofer.zivony[5d]: f11 is very big
mical[2d]: I mean give up the two stones
bERt0r[1k]: can w just k18 and make an eye there?
Zaphodian[?]: Yes, never give up. I have won many lost games in the past.
mical[2d]: but looks gote after K18
ys3[3d]: this fischer adds 20 seconds per move
dlpigozzi[4k]: can u link it kusrabs?
ys3[3d]: could be some tim epressure soon
ys3[3d]: that brief disconnect window was worrying
Move 128
ys3[3d]: there we go
Move 129
Zaphodian[?]: Gote? what kind of word is that? Every move is in principle gote - the question is whether it's good or not.
Move 130
de4e6496db954858[2k]: b11?
kusrabs[5k]: <error> , https://vk.com/wall-84673794_12390 . Later I can translate it, if you need
Move 131
ofer.zivony[5d]: having to end up with this move is painful
bERt0r[1k]: called it!
NicelyManifest[1d]: Zaph - why the inverse pedancy? You know what is meant here
ofer.zivony[5d]: k17 I mean
dlpigozzi[4k]: thx
Move 132
bERt0r[1k]: w wants to slay the dragon
ys3[3d]: i want sure if B could allow b11
Move 134
ys3[3d]: but lets find out
ys3[3d]: wasnt*
filip.diloom[2d]: B12 still an eye?
mical[2d]: B12 is alive locally right?
mical[2d]: black just doesn't want to gote B12
ys3[3d]: ah so it is. sneaky other eyes
Puumanamana[2d]: I guess b should play F14 before living
Zaphodian[?]: Come to think of it, Maybe W should have played K17 at K16 because that would give W a certain cutting point at L15 later
Move 138
Zaphodian[?]: that gave W 38 seconds extra
CarloTibaldi[1d]: why B is playing ko threats?
Wasser Bjorn[5d]: this game is giving me ptsd
Mardipaev[4d]: b12 is an eye, gote but still, should be enough to win no?
DeYanG77[?]: G8
Move 140
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: too painful
Move 142
mical[2d]: not sure it's enough to win. Too close IMO, especially with sente white can kill the bottom left corner.
Move 143
de4e6496db954858[2k]: nice
kusrabs[5k]: a bit more painful is attack of L5 or M5
Move 146
tymak[2d]: what is the status of C3 stone?
Move 148
fightyoats[4d]: if i was playing black, it would die
fightyoats[4d]: if i was playing white it would live
mical[2d]: :D I know that feeling
Puumanamana[2d]: locally dead, but lot of aji
DeYanG77[?]: P5
de4e6496db954858[2k]: p5?
Yossy[1d]: P7
bERt0r[1k]: w wants to kill dragons :P
aloisp[2d]: fightyoats .... we have something in common :)
Move 149
tymak[2d]: I was thinking something around H3 for w to reduce corner aji and pretend that b bottom group is under pressure
bERt0r[1k]: this is an attack on the middle black group
LVL79[4k]: B has a 8 times more time then W...
Puumanamana[2d]: @tymak, I was thinking the same actually
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Vital point now, but maybe aji in the corner
mical[2d]: I think white's exchange is to remove threats from the dragon being dead.
mical[2d]: or being attacked
Move 151
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: B will counterattack
Move 152
kusrabs[5k]: I was: please, penates, make A.D. play d3... And he plays even better!
brcoutme[4k]: I thought he might time out for a second there.
DeYanG77[?]: c4 логичней был
DeYanG77[?]: e4
kusrabs[5k]: e2 -- и он жив, верно?
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: trouble?
Puumanamana[2d]: b4 feels like a lost ko threat
bERt0r[1k]: does L15 work for white?
Move 153
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: hard to kill
Move 154
Zaphodian[?]: So G2 looks like a bad move.
Move 155
ys3[3d]: i think W has a slight lead if he keeps the corner
Move 157
bERt0r[1k]: not if w dies in the middle :P
Move 163
Zaphodian[?]: Using the aji in the corner as ko threats could be very smart
Move 165
Russian[5d]: Variation: beasts
Zaphodian[?]: hmmm, this could derail the game completely
ys3[3d]: time pressure...
Move 166
bERt0r[1k]: @Russian I wanna upvote you
bERt0r[1k]: :D
GaJ[5k]: +1
jsikkema8[4k]: +1
Move 167
brcoutme[4k]: +1
Zaphodian[?]: It's always hard to predict the future...
Russian[5d]: ))
Move 170
Ten[1p]: Looks tough for white, time trouble and thin shapes around
Zaphodian[?]: I think Diner might win now
kusrabs[5k]: I hope so. I think he deserved it now.
Zaphodian[?]: No
Move 171
kusrabs[5k]: And than they will tiebreak, right?
Move 172
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: unkillable
dlpigozzi[4k]: move 170 crowd forecast 60% for Diner :P
bERt0r[1k]: what do you guys think about n17
dlpigozzi[4k]: im gonna check what the AI says at the end
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: how to resist this ko?
Move 174
kusrabs[5k]: A.D. should think faster...
Zaphodian[?]: I hate to make that forecast, but I think we have no choice at this point
Move 178
kusrabs[5k]: please, no timeouts now...
ys3[3d]: both in time pressure now so this could be fun. or not
Move 180
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: better than the game
Move 181
kusrabs[5k]: no fun with Javascript, stealing time
Move 193
LVL79[4k]: b10
ys3[3d]: has to go for it
Move 196
Puumanamana[2d]: b10 would be pretty bad actually, it's gote
Move 197
LVL79[4k]: no, Its sente!
pynxy[6d]: Black p6?
Move 200
Puumanamana[2d]: b10 d11 a12
Move 201
Puumanamana[2d]: c11*
Move 202
LVL79[4k]: and d13
wurfmau3[5d]: b10 for which player?
LVL79[4k]: and dragon is die
Move 203
dlpigozzi[4k]: A3
kusrabs[5k]: j3 gives a hope to W
mathbatler[2d]: A3 C1
Move 208
ys3[3d]: time for counting
Ten[1p]: Show’s over
Move 211
kusrabs[5k]: not yet...
mical[2d]: so painful
Move 214
SardishGo[4k]: ice black
Move 218
Zaphodian[?]: I was making breakfast and came back and now I am thinking Artem is having breakfast for breakfast...
pynxy[6d]: close game
dlpigozzi[4k]: u change again your bet Zaph?
pynxy[6d]: breakfast at noon??
Move 219
kusrabs[5k]: it was a mistake at o6
ys3[3d]: theres never a bad time to have breakfast
Zaphodian[?]: I got too excited, forgot about breakfast when I started watching this game
bERt0r[1k]: k16?
Move 221
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: W declares victory
Move 223
ys3[3d]: yeah W got enough compensation on bottom i think
Move 226
pynxy[6d]: breakfast is an endgame master tho...
Zaphodian[?]: Too late for that
Move 230
Zaphodian[?]: and more declarations of victory
kusrabs[5k]: White still can do a mistake as well as b
Move 232
ys3[3d]: f5 was a bad threat then?
kusrabs[5k]: o6 was a self-killing
Move 237
pynxy[6d]: d8 for b
Move 239
bERt0r[1k]: e9 for w not sente?
Zaphodian[?]: no
bERt0r[1k]: f8 i guess
ys3[3d]: it would force b g8
ys3[3d]: which w doesnt want
Yezurof[2d]: No, because G8 is sente for black
Move 241
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: keep winning
Move 242
bERt0r[1k]: yay
bERt0r[1k]: i was waiting for this
Move 246
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: last chance for B
Move 247
Zaphodian[?]: Ofc, W 8 and 10 are greedy and then it can become a ko.
Move 249
creatspirit[3d]: what was L18 ?
gasana[5d]: i was wondering as well
creatspirit[3d]: looks like misclick ...
bERt0r[1k]: resign please move?
Move 250
creatspirit[3d]: xD
Move 251
creatspirit[3d]: i doubt w can do taht#
Zaphodian[?]: oops, this looks very risky
Move 253
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: what!?!?
Move 254
creatspirit[3d]: ???
creatspirit[3d]: what happend??
claire yang[7d]: they both didn't saw it
creatspirit[3d]: omg
Zaphodian[?]: B is reading it
ys3[3d]: good thing theres time pressure
Move 255
Аlрhа - 1 5 2[?]: Variation: 18
Move 256
creatspirit[3d]: lucky w
martin97[4d]: h3 h4 h2 j1?
Palko[2p]: H3 h2 would have killed?
bERt0r[1k]: 4 at j1
Move 258
dlpigozzi[4k]: white two eyes??!
Move 259
Puumanamana[2d]: there's gonna a huge spike in the graph
Zaphodian[?]: Variation: Huge ko, Alpha
Move 261
kusrabs[5k]: weeeelll, as big as a hole in my heart... He was so close to win
Move 262
Zaphodian[?]: Well, I am happy
Move 265
claire yang[7d]: It's less about ko fight, than yose determined this game...
Move 266
bERt0r[1k]: there was no ko there
Move 267
Zaphodian[?]: why not?
bERt0r[1k]: because w can capture
BGlookwhai[9k]: ไทยครับ
Zaphodian[?]: how?
Move 268
bERt0r[1k]: j1 is mistake, w gotta play h1
Move 272
Palko[2p]: H3 h2 h4 h1
Palko[2p]: Would live
Move 273
bERt0r[1k]: b can capture 5 stones and white captures back
Move 274
Zaphodian[?]: I c
Shinkenjoe[1d]: with a double under the stones nice
Move 275
Palko[2p]: I messed up the order but you know what I mean
Zaphodian[?]: Life but he would have lost
Move 279
bERt0r[1k]: Variation: 19
Zaphodian[?]: Yes, I got it
bERt0r[1k]: Variation: h1 works
Move 288
Zaphodian[?]: Hmmm, I wonder who would have won if B had played H3
Move 291
Shinkenjoe[1d]: the better player
Move 296
ourbaher[6k]: K9, why not?
Move 300
Yezurof[2d]: W+4.5 ?
Zaphodian[?]: I hate that nonsense: the better player often does not win, maybe like 49.9% of the cases.
Move 305
bERt0r[1k]: the player with more points is going to win
Zaphodian[?]: a truism
💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: gg!
fightyoats[4d]: gg
goodstyle[3d]: gg
kusrabs[5k]: Напряженнейшая игра
Zaphodian[?]: wow, 6.5!
LVL79[4k]: Артем, вітаю!!!
kusrabs[5k]: Thank you. Gg
Zaphodian[?]: Congratulations, Artem
robertmehl[14k]: Gg
LT_[?]: gg
💖 KoBa 💖[1k]: that was exciting match to watch ^___^
brcoutme[4k]: I would call that pretty even if it is only 50.1% of the time winning
bERt0r[1k]: whoa AI
daonata[7k]: Вітаю!
Zaphodian[?]: The real world is not pretty at all. It is boring statistics.
artem92[2p]: дякую
bERt0r[1k]: f5 really the losing move?
GaJ[5k]: Move 170 the crowd agreed with the AI
kusrabs[5k]: <error> , was o6 a misclick?
Porphyre[?]: sorry its no revision
Porphyre[?]: my cat walked on my computer
Zaphodian[?]: That's why cats are not allowed on the go board
LVL79[4k]: игра очень напряженная была, соперники достойны друг друга
LVL79[4k]: Ok, lets see the next game Stanislaw Frejlak (Poland) vs Anton Chernykh (Russia) at 13:30 CET
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