Lee Sedol vs AlphaGo

Move 70

AlphaGo(March,2016)[7d]

1 capture

Lee Sedol[9p]

0 captures

+ 7.5

Unranked

Rules: Chinese

Review by: ...

Review controller: ...

Move

: Control passed to RobertT

Move 0 + 13

[10:26] RobertT[5d]: The normal opening move

Move 0 + 16

[10:26] Tokumoto[7k]: Thanks for doing this

[10:26] RobertT[5d]: np

[10:26] RobertT[5d]: this is considered a bad exchange

[10:27] Tokumoto[7k]: for black?

[10:27] RobertT[5d]: usually this move is played after white attacks the shape to get strength.

[10:27] RobertT[5d]: yes

Move 0 + 15

[10:28] RobertT[5d]: usually you dont want to play this move

Move 0 + 14

[10:28] RobertT[5d]: and instead play a move like

Move 0 + 15

[10:28] RobertT[5d]: this

[10:28] Tokumoto[7k]: ahh

[10:28] RobertT[5d]: (not now but later)

Move 0 + 17

[10:28] RobertT[5d]: because now you threaten to surround

Move 0 + 19

[10:28] RobertT[5d]: which is just about sente

Move 0 + 16

[10:28] RobertT[5d]: after this exchange

Move 0 + 17

[10:29] RobertT[5d]: this isnt as threatening

Move 0 + 19

[10:29] RobertT[5d]: because the follow up doesn't threaten anything

[10:29] Tokumoto[7k]: I see

Move 0 + 15

[10:29] RobertT[5d]: so this is saved as an emergency move

[10:29] RobertT[5d]: if black is under severe attack

Move 0 + 17

[10:30] Tokumoto[7k]: I see that

[10:30] RobertT[5d]: the only positive is since he already has the emergency move, his group is strong so he can ignore it for now

Move 0 + 19

[10:30] RobertT[5d]: and instead helps his weakest stone

Move 0 + 27

[10:31] RobertT[5d]: this is all joseki

[10:31] RobertT[5d]: there are 2 choices here

[10:31] RobertT[5d]: A or B

Move 0 + 28

[10:31] Tokumoto[7k]: so in your opinion, Q5 should have been K3 or thereabout

[10:31] RobertT[5d]: A is more solid

[10:32] RobertT[5d]: q5 should have not been played and saved for later

[10:32] Tokumoto[7k]: got it

[10:32] RobertT[5d]: q5 should have just been straight to c4

[10:32] RobertT[5d]: without the exchange

[10:32] Tokumoto[7k]: ahh

[10:32] RobertT[5d]: ok, the game choice of c7 is more solid and better for territory

[10:32] RobertT[5d]: but

[10:33] RobertT[5d]: d5 isn't dead and still has room to run out

Move 0 + 28

[10:33] RobertT[5d]: this way leaves a lot of aji

[10:33] RobertT[5d]: black isn't actually dead

[10:33] RobertT[5d]: instead if black chooses to run out white gets a huge wall

Move 0 + 39

[10:34] RobertT[5d]: but in this situation

Move 0 + 40

[10:34] RobertT[5d]: its a little hard to attack this group

Move 0 + 40

[10:35] RobertT[5d]: would have to attack like this

[10:35] badpunman[2d]: i doubt black would play that out immediatelly

[10:35] RobertT[5d]: yes

[10:35] RobertT[5d]: it wouldn't be immediate

Move 0 + 28

[10:35] Tokumoto[7k]: so E7 is much more effective at D7?

[10:36] RobertT[5d]: so this gives up more territory for influence which isnt as important here

Move 0 + 28

[10:36] RobertT[5d]: so white chooses this variant

Move 0 + 28

[10:36] RobertT[5d]: this?

[10:36] Tokumoto[7k]: yes

[10:36] RobertT[5d]: d5 can still run out with this

Move 0 + 29

[10:37] RobertT[5d]: so it is like c7

[10:37] RobertT[5d]: but doesn't reduce liberties

[10:37] Tokumoto[7k]: oh I see

Move 0 + 29

[10:37] RobertT[5d]: black chooses high

Move 0 + 29

[10:37] RobertT[5d]: normal would be low

[10:37] RobertT[5d]: but

[10:38] RobertT[5d]: lower left was a trade of territory for influence

[10:38] RobertT[5d]: so white has a lot of influence

Move 0 + 30

[10:38] RobertT[5d]: and if black plays low

[10:38] RobertT[5d]: white can keep black low

[10:38] RobertT[5d]: while making a left side moyo

[10:38] RobertT[5d]: this wouldn't be immediate either

Move 0 + 31

[10:38] RobertT[5d]: but you can see after this exchange like in the game

Move 0 + 32

[10:38] RobertT[5d]: left side is getting big

Move 0 + 33

[10:38] Tokumoto[7k]: yep

[10:39] RobertT[5d]: and black might even need another defense move

Move 0 + 29

[10:39] RobertT[5d]: so black plays high to remove that

[10:39] RobertT[5d]: I also think black already saw the g4 aji

[10:39] Tokumoto[7k]: ahhh

[10:39] RobertT[5d]: and k4 better works with g4 move

Move 0 + 33

[10:40] RobertT[5d]: most players are taught this move as "only play it when you already have the pincer stone"

[10:40] RobertT[5d]: but there is another time when you can play this kick move

[10:40] RobertT[5d]: and that's when the side isn't that big

[10:41] RobertT[5d]: the kick doesn't take the corner but it makes it easier to take it

Move 0 + 33

[10:41] RobertT[5d]: than just defending

[10:41] RobertT[5d]: here

Move 0 + 34

[10:41] RobertT[5d]: white can just jump in

[10:41] RobertT[5d]: and the result is good for white

Move 0 + 35

[10:41] RobertT[5d]: now if white jumps in

Move 0 + 37

[10:41] RobertT[5d]: the outside can come under attack

[10:41] RobertT[5d]: and is heavier

Move 0 + 36

[10:42] RobertT[5d]: so white needs the extension first

Move 0 + 36

[10:42] RobertT[5d]: if white plays too far

Move 0 + 40

[10:42] RobertT[5d]: black can play this sequence to secure the corner

Move 0 + 35

[10:42] RobertT[5d]: but this kick is ok because

Move 0 + 36

[10:42] RobertT[5d]: up to here

[10:43] RobertT[5d]: these stones are low and strong

[10:43] RobertT[5d]: so

Move 0 + 38

[10:43] RobertT[5d]: its a little slow to play a move like this

Move 0 + 37

[10:43] RobertT[5d]: this was the big suprise move of this game

[10:44] Terranigma[1k]: Was also surprised that w didnt just play Q10 actually...

[10:44] RobertT[5d]: this is the most computer like move we have seen from AlphaGo

Move 0 + 36

[10:44] RobertT[5d]: if this was a human

[10:44] RobertT[5d]: moves like these would be the idea

Move 0 + 37

[10:45] RobertT[5d]: but this move breaks the principles of the opening that humans follow

[10:45] RobertT[5d]: it is similar to the first game opening

[10:45] RobertT[5d]: when AlphaGo pushed from behind on the 4th line

[10:45] RobertT[5d]: now AlphaGo shoulder hit a 4th line stone

Move 0 + 38

[10:46] RobertT[5d]: If white plays this direction

Move 0 + 42

[10:46] RobertT[5d]: white can get territory

Move 0 + 43

[10:46] RobertT[5d]: but

Move 0 + 62

[10:47] RobertT[5d]: after the game sequence

Move 0 + 64

[10:47] RobertT[5d]: blacks middle is actually closed off more

[10:47] Tokumoto[7k]: right

[10:47] RobertT[5d]: its harder to reduce

Move 0 + 69

[10:48] RobertT[5d]: like even something like this

[10:48] RobertT[5d]: (which wouldn't happen this early)

[10:48] RobertT[5d]: the center is close to territory

Move 0 + 64

[10:48] RobertT[5d]: where in the game

Move 0 + 64

[10:48] RobertT[5d]: there is still an opening here

[10:48] RobertT[5d]: for white to come in

[10:48] RobertT[5d]: also

[10:48] RobertT[5d]: this

Move 0 + 63

[10:49] RobertT[5d]: if black defends this

Move 0 + 64

[10:49] RobertT[5d]: the white stone and group can help with top side invasions later

Move 0 + 38

[10:49] RobertT[5d]: so white chose this way

Move 0 + 40

[10:50] RobertT[5d]: to kind of treat this like miai

[10:50] Tokumoto[7k]: ahh

Move 0 + 45

[10:50] RobertT[5d]: this sequence is fairly forced

Move 0 + 63

[10:51] Terranigma[1k]: E12 was nice

[10:51] RobertT[5d]: ya

Move 0 + 67

[10:51] RobertT[5d]: so black takes the top move

[10:51] RobertT[5d]: so that means white has to do something about the center

[10:51] RobertT[5d]: since it was treated kind of like miai

Move 0 + 68

[10:51] RobertT[5d]: but the problem is

[10:51] RobertT[5d]: after this move

Move 0 + 69

[10:51] RobertT[5d]: black can ignore

Move 0 + 68

[10:52] RobertT[5d]: white might have to come here immediatly

Move 0 + 69

[10:52] RobertT[5d]: after this

[10:52] RobertT[5d]: the game is hard for Lee Sedol

[10:52] RobertT[5d]: because black has a HUGE top moyo

[10:53] RobertT[5d]: and whites territory is relatively small

[10:53] Terranigma[1k]: your direct p7 for w suggestions looks good tho

[10:53] RobertT[5d]: and blacks stones are almost all strong now

[10:53] RobertT[5d]: the only weakness is the f8 group

Move 0 + 70

[10:54] RobertT[5d]: I thought white was going to start the attack on the center immediatly

Move 0 + 70

[10:54] RobertT[5d]: like this

Move 0 + 71

[10:54] RobertT[5d]: but after the jump, even that was hard

[10:54] RobertT[5d]: the question is how to use this attack

[10:54] RobertT[5d]: only option is for a top invasion

Move 0 + 69

[10:55] RobertT[5d]: which isn't very clear

Move 0 + 70

[10:55] RobertT[5d]: so instead lee sedol took this very big move

[10:55] Tokumoto[7k]: so G17 was in Sedol's mind for a long time?

[10:56] RobertT[5d]: this move is roughtly a 20 point move like we saw in the game

[10:56] RobertT[5d]: yes

[10:56] Tokumoto[7k]: right. Michael said that

Move 0 + 69

[10:56] RobertT[5d]: to count the value of the move

[10:56] RobertT[5d]: we have to compare

[10:56] Terranigma[1k]: I liked alpha's response to G17 tho -- would have $*!% me off as w anyway

Move 0 + 77

[10:57] RobertT[5d]: compare this result

[10:57] RobertT[5d]: to

Move 0 + 89

[10:57] RobertT[5d]: this result

[10:57] Tokumoto[7k]: huge

[10:57] RobertT[5d]: yes

[10:58] RobertT[5d]: so like 30 point difference

Move 0 + 73

[10:59] RobertT[5d]: black takes this time to defend his last weak group

[10:59] Terranigma[1k]: F11 is another very deep looking move

[10:59] RobertT[5d]: this game is very hard for white because white is short on territory, nothing to attack and no moyo to expand

[10:59] RobertT[5d]: whites only option is to invade

[11:00] RobertT[5d]: if white cant invade, it's game over

Move 0 + 74

[11:00] RobertT[5d]: white play this move just to get more stones in the center

[11:00] RobertT[5d]: to make the invasion / reduction easier

Move 0 + 77

[11:00] RobertT[5d]: so this creates a weakness at A to help with the top invasion

[11:00] RobertT[5d]: its just preparing the invasion

[11:01] RobertT[5d]: of f11 isn't connected to f8 then black has to be careful when attacking

Move 0 + 79

[11:01] RobertT[5d]: just an exchange to make it harder for black to surround the center for territory in endgame

[11:01] RobertT[5d]: and make the e10 cut more powerfull

Move 0 + 80

[11:02] RobertT[5d]: and finally white invades

Move 0 + 81

[11:02] RobertT[5d]: this is a little bit of a suprise

Move 0 + 81

[11:02] RobertT[5d]: most people would play here

Move 0 + 81

[11:02] RobertT[5d]: but this move

[11:02] RobertT[5d]: is just enough defense

Move 0 + 82

[11:03] RobertT[5d]: to defend against this kind of move

Move 0 + 82

[11:03] RobertT[5d]: so now the farthest white can go is like this

Move 0 + 82

[11:03] RobertT[5d]: first white comes out though

Move 0 + 83

[11:04] RobertT[5d]: note that black doesn't play like this

Move 0 + 84

[11:04] RobertT[5d]: because it gives white more forcing moves

Move 0 + 82

[11:05] RobertT[5d]: the basic guideline when playing attaching moves

[11:05] RobertT[5d]: is extend when you are strong in the area

[11:05] RobertT[5d]: and hane when you are weak

Move 0 + 80

[11:05] RobertT[5d]: so lets say white started with an attachment when invading

Move 0 + 81

[11:05] RobertT[5d]: you don't want to hane

Move 0 + 86

[11:06] RobertT[5d]: because that gives forcing moves

[11:06] RobertT[5d]: to get shape or get out

Move 0 + 81

[11:06] RobertT[5d]: instead you want to extend

[11:06] RobertT[5d]: now white has almost no forcing moves

[11:06] RobertT[5d]: and has to figure out where to go

Move 0 + 83

[11:06] RobertT[5d]: this gives white no slack

Move 0 + 85

[11:07] RobertT[5d]: this is fixing blacks weakness while offering a trade

[11:07] Tokumoto[7k]: nowhere to go now

Move 0 + 86

[11:07] RobertT[5d]: sure you can jump out

Move 0 + 87

[11:07] RobertT[5d]: I'll destory your left and make a big top left corner

[11:07] Tokumoto[7k]: ahh

[11:07] RobertT[5d]: which is enough points to win

Move 0 + 86

[11:07] RobertT[5d]: so white has to defend

Move 0 + 90

[11:08] RobertT[5d]: black takes his sente sequence to reduce and also fix any weakness

Move 0 + 87

[11:08] RobertT[5d]: if he didn't

Move 0 + 88

[11:08] RobertT[5d]: this might be a threat later

[11:08] RobertT[5d]: to cut or hane

[11:09] RobertT[5d]: which is a big territory difference

Move 0 + 93

[11:09] RobertT[5d]: this move was a little bit of a suprise

Move 0 + 93

[11:09] RobertT[5d]: black changed the move order

[11:09] RobertT[5d]: normally just here

Move 0 + 94

[11:09] RobertT[5d]: and if black connects

Move 0 + 95

[11:09] RobertT[5d]: attack the whole group

Move 0 + 94

[11:09] RobertT[5d]: and lets say white jumps out

Move 0 + 95

[11:10] RobertT[5d]: now black can capture this

Move 0 + 93

[11:10] RobertT[5d]: this is a little more risky

Move 0 + 95

[11:10] RobertT[5d]: because now which can try to be tricky

Move 0 + 102

[11:10] RobertT[5d]: maybe something like this works

[11:10] RobertT[5d]: sadly it doesnt

[11:11] RobertT[5d]: but it leaves the possibility open for complication

Move 0 + 111

[11:11] RobertT[5d]: doesn't quite work though

Move 0 + 93

[11:11] RobertT[5d]: but you have to read all of that out to be able to play this move

[11:11] RobertT[5d]: otherwise this would be a mistake

Move 0 + 99

[11:12] RobertT[5d]: after this

[11:12] RobertT[5d]: black top is a huge territory

[11:12] RobertT[5d]: its almost all of whites territory combined

Move 0 + 101

[11:13] RobertT[5d]: AlphaGo doesn't let up with its attack

Move 0 + 108

[11:13] RobertT[5d]: only white choice

Move 0 + 109

[11:13] RobertT[5d]: then black found this move

[11:13] RobertT[5d]: now white cant hope for any territory in the center

[11:14] Terranigma[1k]: alphago seems to like a strategy of creating one big territory and just merely living everywhere else

Move 0 + 113

[11:14] RobertT[5d]: white tries to reduce blacks center as much as possible while protecting

Move 0 + 114

[11:14] RobertT[5d]: this is a huge threat

[11:15] RobertT[5d]: it makes the m3 weakness very real

Move 0 + 119

[11:15] RobertT[5d]: but alphago says the center white group is more urgent

[11:15] RobertT[5d]: than the big m3 move

Move 0 + 123

[11:16] RobertT[5d]: white disagrees and takes the big move

Move 0 + 128

[11:16] RobertT[5d]: white actually plays the sequence in sente

[11:16] Terranigma[1k]: I like how alpha prepared a ko threat with C11 just in case -- before doing this bold stuff

[11:17] RobertT[5d]: white then comes back to defend and we get to see if the center black moves were actually more urgent than m3

[11:17] Tokumoto[7k]: so Sedol was actually 'wrong' in the disagreement...

Move 0 + 129

[11:17] RobertT[5d]: this is another great move

[11:17] RobertT[5d]: threatens to cut the f15 stones while defending blacks shape

[11:18] RobertT[5d]: at this point white knew he was behind

[11:18] RobertT[5d]: I remember watching the game and lee sedol spent a very long time on this move

[11:18] RobertT[5d]: counting the score

Move 0 + 130

[11:18] RobertT[5d]: and see if he loses if he just defends

[11:18] RobertT[5d]: he was playing out the endgame after this move in his head and seeing if the score was good enough

[11:18] RobertT[5d]: and it wasn't

Move 0 + 130

[11:19] RobertT[5d]: so white tried one last try to make it complicated

[11:19] RobertT[5d]: hopeing for a mistake from AlphaGo

Move 0 + 138

[11:20] RobertT[5d]: this move was just to keep sente

Move 0 + 139

[11:20] RobertT[5d]: after this move white needs to play another move to make his move make sense

Move 0 + 140

[11:20] RobertT[5d]: which lets black choose the next endgame point

Move 0 + 138

[11:20] RobertT[5d]: so white played this move

[11:20] RobertT[5d]: to get a response

Move 0 + 139

[11:21] RobertT[5d]: and choose the next endgame

Move 0 + 139

[11:21] RobertT[5d]: but instead black ignored

Move 0 + 140

[11:21] Tokumoto[7k]: ohhhh

[11:21] RobertT[5d]: white threatens to cut while defending his connection

Move 0 + 141

[11:21] RobertT[5d]: black counter cuts

Move 0 + 142

[11:21] RobertT[5d]: black gets the tail but white gets to jump into the top farther

Move 0 + 148

[11:22] RobertT[5d]: and connects here

Move 0 + 150

[11:22] RobertT[5d]: white actually reads out that he connects

Move 0 + 156

[11:22] RobertT[5d]: black cant cut

Move 0 + 149

[11:23] RobertT[5d]: so this exchange of h10 for p18 was good for white

Move 0 + 151

[11:23] RobertT[5d]: this peeps the cut

Move 0 + 155

[11:24] RobertT[5d]: white is cut this way

Move 0 + 152

[11:24] RobertT[5d]: so white defends

Move 0 + 154

[11:24] RobertT[5d]: then plays one of the last big moves

Move 0 + 155

[11:25] RobertT[5d]: threatens the cut again

Move 0 + 156

[11:25] RobertT[5d]: and since white is behind, white takes the ko

[11:25] RobertT[5d]: to try to defend in a way that makes more points

Move 0 + 157

[11:25] RobertT[5d]: but AlphaGo doesn't care because it knows it's ahead

Move 0 + 160

[11:25] RobertT[5d]: then AlphaGo finds this tesuji sequence

Move 0 + 167

[11:26] RobertT[5d]: this was a big suprise

Move 0 + 173

[11:26] Terranigma[1k]: outpro-ed the pro

Move 0 + 174

[11:26] RobertT[5d]: this was a trade

[11:26] RobertT[5d]: but

[11:27] Tokumoto[7k]: I like that "outpro-ed the pro"

[11:27] RobertT[5d]: black gained 10 or so points

[11:27] RobertT[5d]: but white gained closer to 14

[11:27] RobertT[5d]: so this exchange was actually better for black

[11:27] RobertT[5d]: white*

[11:27] RobertT[5d]: sorry

Move 0 + 210

[11:29] RobertT[5d]: and the rest is just normal endgame

[11:29] Tokumoto[7k]: I see....

[11:29] Terranigma[1k]: solid review! ...what you thunk were lee's biggest mistakes tho?

[11:30] RobertT[5d]: this game suprised me

[11:30] RobertT[5d]: because the last game and the games vs Fan Hui, AlphaGo's biggest weakness was its opening

[11:30] RobertT[5d]: but this game AlphaGo actually won the opening

Move 0 + 50

[11:31] RobertT[5d]: even with the 2 "bad" exchanges

Move 0 + 68

[11:31] RobertT[5d]: AlphaGo was able to get a more favorable position going into middle game

Move 0 + 78

[11:32] Tokumoto[7k]: according to the DeepMind guy on the stream, AlphaGo version was frozen before the first Sedol game

Move 0 + 68

[11:32] Terranigma[1k]: Variation: this any better?

[11:32] RobertT[5d]: ya, that was a move i pointed out

Move 0 + 68

[11:32] RobertT[5d]: saying that white might not have time for this move

Move 0 + 68

[11:33] RobertT[5d]: and might have to play here first

Move 0 + 68

[11:33] RobertT[5d]: well

[11:33] Terranigma[1k]: hm

[11:33] RobertT[5d]: actually as a white move it would be here

[11:33] RobertT[5d]: but same idea

Move 0 + 67

[11:34] Terranigma[1k]: anyway yeah that looks good to me

[11:34] RobertT[5d]: its hard to think of Lee Sedols mistake because both of the players are so much stronger than me

[11:35] Tokumoto[7k]: that perspective is refreshing to me...

[11:35] RobertT[5d]: its hard to say but maybe a cho chikun style of game might work better vs alphago

[11:35] Tokumoto[7k]: Thank you very much for the review

[11:35] RobertT[5d]: one problem he had this game

[11:35] RobertT[5d]: was that he waited so long to deal with black that it became almost impossible to deal with

[11:36] Tokumoto[7k]: he looked so cautious and conservative in the opening

[11:36] RobertT[5d]: he did better in the first game when he turned the game into no one having territory

[11:36] RobertT[5d]: or a low territory game

[11:36] RobertT[5d]: first game the point difference was closer to 3.5

[11:37] RobertT[5d]: this game the point difference was closer to 10.5

[11:37] RobertT[5d]: and the first game Lee Sedol was winning for a good part of the middle game

[11:37] Tokumoto[7k]: because of the huge territory on top

[11:37] RobertT[5d]: this game AlphaGo seemed to be in control the entire game

Move 0 + 159

[11:37] Terranigma[1k]: difference also due to mistake due to time pressure, around move 159 i mean

Move 0 + 67

[11:38] Tokumoto[7k]: I see

[11:38] RobertT[5d]: well this game Lee Sedol actually took more time in the opening (though still not as much as a normal tournament game with these time settings)

[11:38] RobertT[5d]: he actually went into byo yomi this game (though only in endgame)

[11:38] Tokumoto[7k]: right

[11:39] RobertT[5d]: in a normal tournament vs humans, Lee Sedol would be in byo yomi starting middle or part way through middle game

Move 0 + 210

[11:39] Terranigma[1k]: yeah he rightly probably regretted playing too fast on some occasions yesterday

Move 0 + 67

[11:40] RobertT[5d]: one thing I noticed about AlphaGo though is it plays a very consistant speed and fast for the time settings

[11:40] RobertT[5d]: it almost didn't go into byo yomi this game

[11:40] RobertT[5d]: and played much faster than Lee Sedol when choosing game changing moves

[11:40] Tokumoto[7k]: right. about 70 seconds per move

Move 0 + 210

[11:40] Terranigma[1k]: probably related to its confidence during the game :)

[11:41] Terranigma[1k]: meaning alphago has not been made to give 100% yet

Move 0 + 81

[11:41] RobertT[5d]: like AlphaGo choosing this move took almost the same amount of time as AlphaGo took to choose move 1....

Move 0 + 37

[11:42] RobertT[5d]: still very suprising how well this move works with the A weakness

[11:43] RobertT[5d]: well that's all I really have for this game

[11:44] Tokumoto[7k]: thanks a lot

Move 0 + 18

[11:44] Terranigma[1k]: thank you!

Move 0 + 37

[11:44] Roybie[9k]: thanks RobertT

[11:44] RobertT[5d]: np

[11:44] Tokumoto[7k]: wow, 51 viewers

[11:45] RobertT[5d]: does anyone have any questions?

[11:46] RobertT[5d]: (guests if you want to ask questions, you can register an account and re-enter the game)

Move 0 + 70

[11:46] Terranigma[1k]: was move 70 poorly timed perhaps?

[11:47] RobertT[5d]: this is the largest move on the board. the only other option is if something is more urgent

[11:47] RobertT[5d]: the only really urgent thing is the attack on blacks f8 group but it is hard to find a way to profit from it right now

[11:48] RobertT[5d]: so it seems ok to leave it for now

Move 0 + 70

[11:48] Terranigma[1k]: Variation: hm

Move 0 + 70

[11:48] Roybie[9k]: was there a way for white to use an attack on that f8 group to prepare better for the G17 invasion? when he made that invasion it seemed a little lacking in support to me

Move 0 + 73

[11:49] RobertT[5d]: hmm

[11:49] RobertT[5d]: might be similar to the game variant

Move 0 + 74

[11:49] RobertT[5d]: if white wants to continue tha attack he has to play something like this

Move 0 + 75

[11:50] RobertT[5d]: in which case b can ignore or

Move 0 + 75

[11:50] RobertT[5d]: run out again and ask "what did you gain from your moves"

Move 0 + 72

[11:50] Terranigma[1k]: well w got J6, but yeah

Move 0 + 73

[11:50] RobertT[5d]: although

[11:50] RobertT[5d]: here black might be able to just come out this way

Move

: Control passed to RobertT

Move 0 + 71

[11:51] RobertT[5d]: or even just here without the exchange

Move 0 + 71

[11:52] RobertT[5d]: or here is probably stronger

Move 0 + 70

[11:52] RobertT[5d]: this would be whites most interesting attack though

[11:52] Terranigma[1k]: and in the top right, any direcet invasions conceivable?

[11:52] RobertT[5d]: hard to say without reading out all the variants

Move 0 + 69

[11:53] RobertT[5d]: not really

[11:53] RobertT[5d]: if white could invade and live

Move 0 + 70

[11:53] RobertT[5d]: then white would have

Move 0 + 70

[11:53] RobertT[5d]: instead of this

[11:53] RobertT[5d]: it would just be better for white

Move 0 + 69

[11:53] Terranigma[1k]: true

Move 0 + 70

[11:53] RobertT[5d]: this move would be the most interesting one to read out

[11:53] Terranigma[1k]: L16 seemed distant, but apparently just right

[11:53] RobertT[5d]: but doesnt seem to work

Move 0 + 72

[11:54] RobertT[5d]: this one is also somewhat interesting

Move 0 + 73

[11:54] RobertT[5d]: but black has enough stones that this should be fine

Move 0 + 79

[11:54] RobertT[5d]: w weakness makes this ok for black

Move 0 + 70

[11:55] RobertT[5d]: so this seems like the deepest white can go with so many black stones

[11:55] RobertT[5d]: and with whites small weaknesses

[11:56] Terranigma[1k]: thanks

[11:56] RobertT[5d]: np

[11:56] RobertT[5d]: anything else?

[11:57] RobertT[5d]: alright, if there's nothing else I'll take my leave.

[11:57] Terranigma[1k]: ...speak up, people!

[11:57] Tokumoto[7k]: Thank you again for doing this

[11:57] Terranigma[1k]: hehe

[11:58] RobertT[5d]: hope to see all you guests registered and enjoying this game in the future :)

[11:58] RobertT[5d]: and hope this helped you understand the game a little more

[11:58] Tokumoto[7k]: yeah, guests, it doesn't cost anything to open an account

[11:58] Roybie[9k]: except all your free time

[11:58] RobertT[5d]: hehe

[11:58] Tokumoto[7k]: haha

[11:59] RobertT[5d]: it will only cost you the rest of your life ;p

[11:59] Tokumoto[7k]: <grin>

[11:59] RobertT[5d]: alright, cya in the main chat

[11:59] Tokumoto[7k]: see you

Move 0 + 101

March 11, 2016

[13:22] quuxman[16k]: 101 is a strong move. I'd be worried about backing it up, and the E8 group

Move 0 + 130

[13:46] quuxman[16k]: I really don't understand 130. Isn't connecting to G15 about equally important and less costly?

Move 0 + 130

[13:46] quuxman[16k]: Variation: d1