CML 2023 - Marseille vs Grenoble

Move 37

In-Seong Hwang[8d]

0 captures

Benjamin Dréan-Guénaïzia[7d]

0 captures

+ 7.5

Unranked

Rules: AGA

Review by: ffgscribe1[?]

Move 0

November 5, 2023

[12:29] Mbrez[3d]: Ouiiiii allez Grenoble !

[12:34] kihonGo[10k]: Qle

[12:37] paulolops[1d]: le match des titans

[12:40] Lfapdlm[1d]: Bravo aux organisateur.ices pour la retransmis des 5 gobans de la finale !

Move 0 + 18

[12:46] Mbrez[3d]: Will Ben be the 6th european player to defeat Inseong, or will Inseong crush all hopes from the very Marseille little big boy???

Move 0 + 19

[12:47] Mbrez[3d]: teams need to win at least 3 boards to be the champions, so one victory on this board won't be enough!

[12:48] Eulalio[7k]: what is the time control here?

Move 0 + 22

[12:49] Mbrez[3d]: 40min fischer +20 sec per move

Move 0 + 23

[12:49] Eulalio[7k]: ty

Move 0 + 26

[12:53] Kountch[1k]: Bonjour. Est-ce que les résultats des précédentes rondes sont en ligne ?

[12:54] Domie[2d]: salut

[12:54] Mbrez[3d]: https://competitions.jeudego.org/lim/

[12:54] Mbrez[3d]: normalement tout est ici

[12:54] Domie[2d]: c'est tjrs compliqué sur OGS de retrouver des parties

[12:55] Kountch[1k]: Merci Milena.

Move 0 + 27

[12:58] Mbrez[3d]: :)

Move 0 + 36

[13:04] Kountch[1k]: Comme ça fait un bout de temps que je ne fais plus de tournois, Je ne savais pas que Tanguy et Ben0 étaient devenus marseillais.

Move 0 + 29

[13:05] paulolops[1d]: tanguy vit a marseille depuis quelques années maintenant

Move 0 + 36

[13:05] Lefab[2d]: Je crois que Ben0 est plutôt hongrois en ce moment

[13:06] Kountch[1k]: Ok, merci.

[13:06] Mbrez[3d]: et ben est hongrois mais marseillais de concarneau

[13:06] Mbrez[3d]: il a fait le frioul une ou deux fois

Move 0 + 29

[13:07] paulolops[1d]: c'est un marseillais dans son coeur disons

[13:07] paulolops[1d]: comme abdallah d'ailleurs

Move 0 + 36

[13:10] Mbrez[3d]: ils ont bien passe 72h la bas chacun sur les deux dernieres annees donc ca va

[13:13] paulolops[1d]: inseong reflechit pas mal sur ce prochain coup

[13:13] paulolops[1d]: ce connais pas trop les variations la

Move 0 + 37

[13:14] paulolops[1d]: une gueule de tigre simple en R12 ?

[13:14] paulolops[1d]: g u e u l e est censure ahah

Move 0 + 37

[13:16] ffgscribe1[?]: classique @paulolops

[13:16] paulolops[1d]: on dit quoi pour eviter la censure bouche de tiggre ? x)

[13:16] paulolops[1d]: ou triangle de kosumi

[13:17] paulolops[1d]: j'ai ecrit tigre avec 2 g a force de vivre a grenoble

[13:17] paulolops[1d]: terrible

Move 0 + 38

[13:18] ffgscribe1[?]: Ben0 pose sa pierre en prononçant "cho chikun"

[13:18] ffgscribe1[?]: les deux esquissent un sourire... j'ai pas la ref

[13:18] ffgscribe1[?]: sachant que j'ai gardé mon thé, c'est pas un tea suji

[13:18] paulolops[1d]: moi non plus il invoque des grands joueurs pour l'aider ?

Move 0 + 39

[13:19] ffgscribe1[?]: (ps : changement de scribe)

[13:22] Kountch[1k]: Cho Chikun joue très territorial et il a joué une pierre en 2e ligne : c'est peut-être la similitude.

[13:24] ffgscribe1[?]: tu as sûrement raison =)

[13:26] ffgscribe1[?]: Ben0 vient de passer derrière à la pendule

Move 0 + 35

[13:27] donnino[17k]: Hello

Move 0 + 39

[13:28] ffgscribe1[?]: hola

[13:31] ffgscribe1[?]: ben0 a arrêté de jouer depuis que je scribe T_T

Move 0 + 41

[13:32] ffgscribe1[?]: they don't stop speaking about cho chilkun

Move 0 + 45

[13:35] ffgscribe1[?]: "what am I reading" says ben0

[13:35] Eulalio[7k]: cho chikun became a zen monk

[13:35] ffgscribe1[?]: he's trying to make an invocation of Cho Chikun I believe

[13:35] paulolops[1d]: je ne sais pas trop comment jouer ca pour blanc

[13:36] ffgscribe1[?]: je commencerai par q9

[13:36] paulolops[1d]: mais ben doit avoir une idee si il a pousse en S6

[13:36] ffgscribe1[?]: puis je laisserais faire l'invocation de cho chikun

Move 0 + 46

[13:37] Eulalio[7k]: white too many weak groups

[13:37] ffgscribe1[?]: they're laughing

[13:37] paulolops[1d]: ah il veut squeeze a moitie

[13:37] ffgscribe1[?]: not too many, just sacrifice stones :p

[13:38] paulolops[1d]: si il en trouve aucune utilité ca sera dommage quand meme x)

[13:38] Lilltiger[1d]: Eulalio: W does not have a single weak group, he probed but did not make groups of them

[13:38] Eulalio[7k]: okay, thx for the insight

Move 0 + 47

[13:39] Eulalio[7k]: what about the group on S6, S7

[13:39] ffgscribe1[?]: Inseong says : "kill me please"

Move 0 + 48

[13:39] Cezary[4d]: haha wow :D

[13:39] ffgscribe1[?]: @eulalio, annoying zombie group

[13:40] Eulalio[7k]: still, technically it is "weak" so not true that white does not have a single weak group

[13:40] paulolops[1d]: it's not a group

[13:40] paulolops[1d]: it's just 2 stones left behind

[13:41] paulolops[1d]: weird two stones i agree but they are never gonna go anywhere

[13:41] paulolops[1d]: they're already dead

[13:41] Eulalio[7k]: yeah, i say the same thing about any stones that i lose, that they were never a group, lol

[13:41] Lilltiger[1d]: Eulalio: none of those groups made the black area grow, the aji is still there and all moves was just probes, w has no intention to try to make them live, just make B worry about them

[13:42] paulolops[1d]: at best it will be ko threats

[13:42] paulolops[1d]: and give some sente moves

[13:43] Eulalio[7k]: man this is a tough game to understand, lol

Move 0 + 62

[13:43] paulolops[1d]: Variation: random sequence

[13:43] paulolops[1d]: it's a bit random but the stones can be used to get something else maybe

Move 0 + 48

[13:43] Eulalio[7k]: how can white afford to make so many of these zombie stone moves

[13:44] philbat[3k]: et donc, mettez des pierres partout, peu importe ce q'il leur arrive, c'est de l'aji !!

[13:44] paulolops[1d]: quand c'est deja chez l'autre c'est un peu l'idee :p

Move 0 + 49

[13:45] paulolops[1d]: si tu te fais tuer de l'exterieur par contre c'est plus problematique

Move 0 + 50

[13:45] Lilltiger[1d]: Eulalio: because black had to respons, and his responses did not make the area bigger, so w lost nothing in it

Move 0 + 51

[13:46] ffgscribe1[?]: then it's a little success for white : he made black capture and surround a large part of the board in sente thanks to those stones to my mind

[13:46] Dalan[2d]: black does not necessarily need to connect the r7 stone, can go for the whole kill. connect leaves bad shape.

Move 0 + 52

[13:46] philbat[3k]: ok je vois, merci

[13:46] ffgscribe1[?]: @agrees @ dalan

[13:46] paulolops[1d]: yes Dalan i cheated a bit to use these stones eheh

[13:47] Dalan[2d]: wishful thinking is always unfortunate when it's expectations aren't met in a game :(

Move 0 + 53

[13:47] Kountch[1k]: Je serais bêtement sorti en E14 à la place de noir.

Move 0 + 54

[13:48] ffgscribe1[?]: c'est pour jouer c16 et surround l'extérieur je crois

Move 0 + 55

[13:49] ffgscribe1[?]: je crois mal

Move 0 + 62

[13:49] donnino[17k]: why can't i find hwang in-seong's rating on goratings.org?

Move 0 + 56

[13:50] Eulalio[7k]: thx for your thoughts, all

[13:50] Dalan[2d]: I think goratings is for pros.

[13:51] paulolops[1d]: and people who played against pros but inseong did not play many i believe

Move 0 + 62

[13:52] donnino[17k]: I thought that 8D was a pro and that amateurs would max out at 7D

Move 0 + 57

[13:52] paulolops[1d]: 8D is an honorific rank

Move 0 + 62

[13:52] donnino[17k]: ok

Move 0 + 61

[13:53] paulolops[1d]: usually delivered by japanese or korean baduk associations to the players who promote the go to the rest of the world

[13:53] ffgscribe1[?]: huh ? @paulolops, it is a rank : https://www.europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/Player_Card.php?&key=14201286

[13:53] paulolops[1d]: it has a gor equivalent

[13:54] ffgscribe1[?]: 2750+

[13:54] Mbrez[3d]: yes but if you see for example europeans like ben0 they are 7d but 1p in gor, never 8d in france

Move 0 + 62

[13:54] donnino[17k]: so does it depend only on rating? I mean if an amateur reaches 2900 it would be awarded with 9D rank?

Move 0 + 62

[13:55] Mbrez[3d]: https://www.europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/Player_Card.php?&key=14513532 example

[13:55] ffgscribe1[?]: I expect L12 now

[13:55] Mbrez[3d]: no

[13:55] Mbrez[3d]: it will stay 7d most likely

Move 0 + 63

[13:56] Mbrez[3d]: for example lukan should be 8d but he is 7d and equivalent 1p https://www.europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/Player_Card.php?&key=13201914

[13:56] Cezary[4d]: why should lukan be 8d?

[13:56] Cezary[4d]: 2700 is model rating for 7d

[13:56] Mbrez[3d]: yeah he shouldnt sorry

[13:56] Mbrez[3d]: in 50 pts :)

[13:57] ffgscribe1[?]: yup when he reaches 2750 then he would be 8d to me

[13:57] Cezary[4d]: I think the system was designed so that it's really hard to get past 7d, some people still do (if you never lose you'll just go to infinity with the rating)

Move 0 + 64

[13:57] Cezary[4d]: so far we have people reaching 8d, maybe in the future someone dominates the scene hard enough to be 9d

[13:58] paulolops[1d]: you mean in the egf ?

[13:58] Cezary[4d]: yeah

[13:58] paulolops[1d]: i'm not sure about egf rules

[13:58] paulolops[1d]: on this

[13:58] Cezary[4d]: they probably don't exist

Move 0 + 65

[13:58] Mbrez[3d]: in egf all 8d are asians

Move 0 + 66

[13:59] Mbrez[3d]: i just checked in gor

Move 0 + 67

[13:59] Mbrez[3d]: lukan could be a first test to see what it will do ))

[13:59] ffgscribe1[?]: according to the EGD they never played each other

Move 0 + 62

[13:59] donnino[17k]: I saw in the link you posted that his goratings score would be 2803. Equivalent to 4p Note that the first of goratings has 3867 points

[14:00] donnino[17k]: amazing...

Move 0 + 68

[14:00] ffgscribe1[?]: I'd play b15 now I think

Move 0 + 69

[14:00] ffgscribe1[?]: ahahah, long way before reaching 8d

[14:01] Cezary[4d]: goratings and egd points are not comparable

Move 0 + 72

[14:01] Cezary[4d]: these are two completly different systems

Move 0 + 67

[14:03] paulolops[1d]: scribe si tu te balade dans les variations ca le fait pour nous aussi

Move 0 + 72

[14:03] ffgscribe1[?]: je reprends la main (Lucien)

Move 0 + 74

[14:04] Mbrez[3d]: arretez de bouger wesh

[14:04] paulolops[1d]: noir a l'air de s'en etre sorti trop facilement au nord

[14:04] ffgscribe1[?]: Je crée du contenu tu permets (je clean)

[14:05] ffgscribe1[?]: noir à l'air de s'en sortir trop facilement

[14:05] Eulalio[7k]: d4?

Move 0 + 78

[14:06] ffgscribe1[?]: 10 min chacun

Move 0 + 91

[14:11] Mbrez[3d]: ouh c'est serred

Move 0 + 96

[14:13] ffgscribe1[?]: hoo

[14:13] paulolops[1d]: jcomprend rien

[14:13] paulolops[1d]: est ce que ben veux attaquer le groupe au nord ?

Move 0 + 97

[14:14] ffgscribe1[?]: estce uqe c'est le scrib qu'est en roue libre ? qui sait

Move 0 + 100

[14:15] Mbrez[3d]: c'est all in la

[14:16] Mbrez[3d]: ben a craqued

[14:16] Mbrez[3d]: c'etait chelou g17

Move 0 + 94

[14:17] paulolops[1d]: il etait deja en retard de pas mal visiblement

Move 0 + 101

[14:17] paulolops[1d]: quasi 10pts de retard depuis que noir vit trop grand au nord plus tot en fait

Move 0 + 103

[14:18] ffgscribe1[?]: Ben fait signe "roo tu fais pas le ko"

Move 0 + 106

[14:19] ffgscribe1[?]: In seong fait signe "ben nan"

Move 0 + 104

[14:20] Lilltiger[1d]: Variation: This would be interesting, possible trade, but is it big enought

Move 0 + 107

[14:20] LoulzCousin[4d]: frère

[14:21] Domie[2d]: comment c'est le signe qui dit "roo tu fais pas le ko" ?

Move 0 + 108

[14:21] LoulzCousin[4d]: En un signe il exprime une phrase entière, balèze les 7d

[14:22] ffgscribe1[?]: Quand on est là c'est évident, fallait être là

Move 0 + 109

[14:24] LoulzCousin[4d]: Noir a tellement de bon yose genre la glissade en e19, je crois que c'est cuit pour Blanc

Move 0 + 113

[14:26] Domie[2d]: si B joue R5 et S4, j'ai l'impression qu'il peut obtenir un ko

Move 0 + 121

[14:28] paulolops[1d]: je pense pas qu'il y ait de ko

[14:29] paulolops[1d]: si blanc descend en S2 noir connecte juste en R3

Move 0 + 115

[14:29] LoulzCousin[4d]: Joli Sabaki par Noir

Move 0 + 117

[14:29] LoulzCousin[4d]: surpris que blanc capture pas e10

[14:31] Mbrez[3d]: only 3 pts, chaud

[14:31] ffgscribe1[?]: ceci dit avec la séquence de dom noir a pas beaucoup de lib un O6 pourrait faire des trucs quand même

Move 0 + 124

[14:31] Domie[2d]: paulolops oui tu as raison, impossible de faire 2 yeux

Move 0 + 117

[14:32] LoulzCousin[4d]: o1 a l'air d'être un sacré double sente

[14:32] Eulalio[7k]: G9?

Move 0 + 118

[14:33] ffgscribe1[?]: comme quoi

Move 0 + 125

[14:35] Cezary[4d]: now it's time for inseong to cho chikun at c17

[14:36] Eulalio[7k]: i would like to see that play out, Cezary

Move 0 + 131

[14:37] ffgscribe1[?]: 6 min Inseong 1 Ben

[14:38] Mbrez[3d]: l'ecart se reduit

[14:38] Mbrez[3d]: gloups

Move 0 + 133

[14:38] Domie[2d]: Benjamin est marseillais maintenant ?

Move 0 + 138

[14:39] donnino[17k]: who is ahead? i can't understand

[14:39] paulolops[1d]: it is very close

Move 0 + 140

[14:40] Eulalio[7k]: the score estimator has it for black +3.5

[14:40] donnino[17k]: so is it still 50-50?

[14:40] paulolops[1d]: kind of

[14:40] donnino[17k]: percent?

[14:40] donnino[17k]: ok

[14:41] paulolops[1d]: game will be decided with yose

Move 0 + 146

[14:42] Lilltiger[1d]: i am not so sure

Move 0 + 149

[14:42] Lilltiger[1d]: this might be enought for w

Move 0 + 151

[14:42] Lilltiger[1d]: nope

[14:43] ffgscribe1[?]: hummm

Move 0 + 152

[14:43] Lilltiger[1d]: b has too good yose moves now

Move 0 + 154

[14:43] Lilltiger[1d]: w needed to wait with f9

Move 0 + 160

[14:43] Lilltiger[1d]: needed to get g2 and s16 first

Move 0 + 169

[14:46] paulolops[1d]: the 4 other boards are decided to a 2-2

Move 0 + 176

[14:47] paulolops[1d]: ca joue la coupe sur ce board mtn

[14:47] Mbrez[3d]: quel stress

[14:47] paulolops[1d]: est ce que blanc peut trouver quelques points suplémentaires

[14:48] Mbrez[3d]: pas evident l'ordre de reduction du centre gauche

Move 0 + 179

[14:48] Mbrez[3d]: oh boy

Move 0 + 167

[14:48] Cezary[4d]: Variation: was this possible?

Move 0 + 189

[14:49] Mbrez[3d]: only 0.5 diff

Move 0

[14:49] donnino[17k]: OGS score estimator has given only 1 point ahead for black

Move 0 + 194

[14:50] donnino[17k]: incredible game

Move 0 + 195

[14:51] Mbrez[3d]: hhhhh

[14:51] Mbrez[3d]: f6 not bigger??

[14:51] Domie[2d]: Cezary what is the difference in points ?

[14:52] Cezary[4d]: black has 2 more points at b7 and a7

[14:52] Domie[2d]: but he gave some prisoners

[14:52] Cezary[4d]: not really, white had to play stones in their own territory

Move 0 + 197

[14:53] Domie[2d]: in this case this would have been great

Move 0 + 166

[14:53] Cezary[4d]: Variation: was this possible?

[14:53] Cezary[4d]: oh same comment

[14:53] Cezary[4d]: well look at it in this order

[14:53] Cezary[4d]: black doesn't lose, just ko threats, right?

Move 0 + 210

[14:54] Mbrez[3d]: se doesnt count black ha to add a move n6?

[14:55] Mbrez[3d]: so...

Move 0 + 211

[14:55] Mbrez[3d]: ah no it counts aga

Move 0 + 213

[14:55] Cezary[4d]: I am not sure it matters, since it's counting stones as well

Move 0 + 230

[14:56] ffgscribe1[?]: end

[14:56] Mbrez[3d]: pfuuu

[14:56] paulolops[1d]: let's goooo

[14:56] Mbrez[3d]: well played!!!

[14:56] Eulalio[7k]: great game

[14:57] ffgscribe1[?]: black win 1,5

[14:58] paulolops[1d]: gg

[14:58] donnino[17k]: incredible game

[14:58] Mbrez[3d]: congrats inseong!!!

[14:58] Domie[2d]: bravo

[14:59] Domie[2d]: merci Scribe

[14:59] Lilltiger[1d]: I wonder if w could have won if he did forcing yose before f9, so hard to judge

[15:00] jehan[?]: merci pour la retransmission :)

[15:00] ffgscribe1[?]: avec plaisir

Move 0 + 37

[15:10] Lefab[2d]: bravo les joueurs, merci aux scribes et à l'orga