Game Finished

Move 1

<error>[8d]

0 captures

<error>[8d]

0 captures

+ 6.5

Unranked

Rules: Japanese

Review by: rthspaz07[1d]

Move 0

July 9, 2015

[14:44] rthspaz07[5k]: hmm looks like i might have to type :(

[14:44] rthspaz07[5k]: audio might not be working

[14:46] testerq[14k]: rthspaz07 [5k]: curently audio presenters count is 0

[14:47] testerq[14k]: try giving yourself voice, click on mic icon, and alow mic sharing when asked by webRTC?

[14:47] rthspaz07[5k]: ah i am not every asked by webrtc

[14:47] testerq[14k]: browser?

[14:47] rthspaz07[5k]: chrome

[14:48] testerq[14k]: ah, let me check

[14:49] testerq[14k]: by default it should ask you

[14:49] rthspaz07[5k]: it doesnt though

[14:49] testerq[14k]: I hear you, give me a sec to check were settings might be

[14:50] rthspaz07[5k]: i have media settings to always allow this side to use my mic

[14:52] testerq[14k]: btw, did you heare me when you geave me cvoice?

[14:52] rthspaz07[5k]: i did not let me give again

[14:52] rthspaz07[5k]: try now

[14:53] testerq[14k]: hm, does not seem to work...

[14:53] testerq[14k]: will try also from chromium

[14:54] testerq[14k]: um, could you pls give me voice again, it did not persist when I swaped browsers

[14:55] rthspaz07[5k]: now try

[14:55] testerq[14k]: did it work?

[14:55] rthspaz07[5k]: nope

[14:56] rthspaz07[5k]: we will just have to use typing

[14:56] testerq[14k]: yeah, I would call it a bug

[14:56] testerq[14k]: as audio presenters as reported by them is always 0

[14:56] RevarIsavé[13k]: Several people have experienced problems with the audio lately

[14:57] rthspaz07[5k]: ok

[14:57] rthspaz07[5k]: well anyways I will just have to type

[14:57] rthspaz07[5k]: ok this review will be mainly for ddk

[14:58] rthspaz07[5k]: but to let everyone know that the fuseki or opening is the theoretically hardest part of the game

[14:58] rthspaz07[5k]: and usually the outcome of games for ddk will not be fuseki but fighting and reading ability

[14:59] rthspaz07[5k]: I am not the best player and so some of these moves might not be best but the concepts behind them will improve you :P

[14:59] rthspaz07[5k]: ok

[15:00] rthspaz07[5k]: but how the beginner of the game starts out could make a game easy or hard for you

[15:00] rthspaz07[5k]: as everyone knows the game starts out in the corners because it is the easiest way to surround territory

Move 0 + 7

[15:00] suhird403[25k]: k this is a review but how come I can see this

Move 0

[15:01] rthspaz07[5k]: lecture really than review

[15:01] rthspaz07[5k]: audio not working sorry :(

Move 0 + 8

[15:01] suhird403[25k]: k

[15:01] suhird403[25k]: ty I am learning

Move 0

[15:02] rthspaz07[5k]: ok when we play in the corner where we play will determine followup and direction of play

[15:02] rthspaz07[5k]: so we will start by understanding what each move in the corners is saying

[15:02] Yusaii[18k]: ^^___________^^

Move 0 + 1

[15:02] rthspaz07[5k]: first we will start with the 3-4 point

[15:03] rthspaz07[5k]: what does this say

[15:03] rthspaz07[5k]: it is a good balance in territory and influence however it invites another move by either player

[15:04] rthspaz07[5k]: and the initial direct of play is along A, B, C and sometimes C

[15:04] rthspaz07[5k]: D i mean as in the "chinese" fuseki

[15:04] rthspaz07[5k]: and usually the 2nd move here is just as valuable as the first

[15:05] rthspaz07[5k]: ok so if black is to enclose the corner lets say at B

[15:05] rthspaz07[5k]: then the right side starts to become big for both players

[15:06] rthspaz07[5k]: around the marked stones

[15:06] rthspaz07[5k]: this allows black to gain larger scale territory called moyo and has good potentia

[15:06] rthspaz07[5k]: l

[15:06] rthspaz07[5k]: and is powerful

[15:07] rthspaz07[5k]: so usually white tries to approach before black can enclose

[15:07] rthspaz07[5k]: lets look at some approaches

Move 0 + 2

[15:07] rthspaz07[5k]: here is a very common approach

[15:07] Enumaris[10k]: What, no love for the two space high enclosure?

[15:08] rthspaz07[5k]: well not used as often do to the weaknesses left over on the upper side

[15:08] rthspaz07[5k]: and in corner

[15:08] Enumaris[10k]: I guess Go Seigen is the only one who plays that lol

[15:08] rthspaz07[5k]: even if you enclose doesnt mean there is no weaknesses

[15:09] rthspaz07[5k]: so this is a basic joseki

Move 0 + 8

[15:09] rthspaz07[5k]: just an example we will not spend much time on joseki

Move 0 + 8

[15:09] rthspaz07[5k]: also this

[15:09] RevarIsavé[13k]: And I got a question right here

Move 0 + 4

[15:09] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

[15:09] RevarIsavé[13k]: After move 5 of this

Move 0 + 5

[15:09] rthspaz07[5k]: here?

[15:10] RevarIsavé[13k]: Yes

[15:10] RevarIsavé[13k]: So

[15:10] RevarIsavé[13k]: Usually white would need to play o16, n16 or something of the likes

[15:11] RevarIsavé[13k]: I got told that, depending on the situation on the board, this can wait

[15:11] rthspaz07[5k]: it can

[15:11] rthspaz07[5k]: because the cut by black is not as big in situations as other moves

[15:11] RevarIsavé[13k]: And that's what I'm wondering about. When?

[15:11] rthspaz07[5k]: that honestly can be base on preference

[15:11] rthspaz07[5k]: for example

[15:11] rthspaz07[5k]: why A over B/

[15:11] rthspaz07[5k]: ?

[15:12] HowToPlay?[10k]: sets up for the hane at o18 from blacK?

[15:12] rthspaz07[5k]: there, as far as my understanding, not "best move" in fuseki and thus so many variations in openings

[15:12] testerq[14k]: a is for influance and more distance, b is stronger

[15:12] rthspaz07[5k]: exactly

[15:12] rthspaz07[5k]: but which is better

Move 0 + 8

[15:13] testerq[14k]: depends on the sorroundings and what you want to play

[15:13] testerq[14k]: ?

[15:13] rthspaz07[5k]: this shape has weakness that can be exploided

Move 0 + 8

[15:13] rthspaz07[5k]: this is more solid but not as fast developing

[15:14] testerq[14k]: so it is question of preference and current board situation?

[15:14] rthspaz07[5k]: so when you tenuki from joseki i think it is preference and you should understand why you tenuki and the result

[15:14] rthspaz07[5k]: yea

[15:14] rthspaz07[5k]: but josekis is not the focus

[15:15] rthspaz07[5k]: i think later you might have a little bit more understanding :P

Move 0 + 2

[15:15] rthspaz07[5k]: ok here is another example of an approach

[15:15] rthspaz07[5k]: so whats the difference here from p16

[15:16] rthspaz07[5k]: from the high 1 space to the 2 space low?

[15:17] Enumaris[10k]: Harder to pincer :D

[15:17] rthspaz07[5k]: exactly

[15:17] testerq[14k]: sry, looking at it with one eye, coding with the other - will stay quiet :)

[15:18] rthspaz07[5k]: but usually in results in loses for white locally and needs follow up by other stones

[15:18] rthspaz07[5k]: but this is 1 way to prevent a pince and a joseki could look like this

Move 0 + 4

[15:18] rthspaz07[5k]: this or A

Move 0 + 1

[15:19] rthspaz07[5k]: ok so with the 3-4 we understand that enclose is important

Move 0 + 3

[15:20] rthspaz07[5k]: this safely encloses about 10 points

[15:20] rthspaz07[5k]: now what is difference between this enclosure and A

[15:21] rthspaz07[5k]: anyone?

[15:21] bencoder[12k]: A leaves a poke?

Move 0 + 7

[15:21] rthspaz07[5k]: like this?

[15:21] bencoder[12k]: yeah

[15:21] rthspaz07[5k]: what else

[15:22] Wulfenia[9k]: better influence on the right side

[15:22] rthspaz07[5k]: why on 4th line

[15:22] rthspaz07[5k]: exactly

[15:22] rthspaz07[5k]: the high enclose give more influence towards the right side but giving more weakness to slide under on top

[15:22] rthspaz07[5k]: with B

[15:23] rthspaz07[5k]: and yea you can probe at A

Move 0 + 7

[15:23] rthspaz07[5k]: what is difference between this and A

[15:24] rthspaz07[5k]: safety

[15:24] rthspaz07[5k]: the farther a stone is away the easier it is for your opponent to invade

Move 0 + 3

[15:25] rthspaz07[5k]: ok

[15:25] rthspaz07[5k]: lets say we have enclosed out corner in a game

Move 0 + 6

[15:25] rthspaz07[5k]: what is a good way to develop this corner?

[15:25] rthspaz07[5k]: so we play on top

[15:25] rthspaz07[5k]: close or far?

[15:26] rthspaz07[5k]: on the right or bottom

[15:26] rthspaz07[5k]: how do we go about developing

[15:26] rthspaz07[5k]: the top right

[15:26] bencoder[12k]: right

[15:26] rthspaz07[5k]: where?

[15:26] rthspaz07[5k]: give examples

[15:27] Злой русский[14k]: I think in the top k16 is ok because of simary

[15:27] Злой русский[14k]: but in the bottom o4 is possible

Move 0 + 7

[15:27] Злой русский[14k]: oh

Move 0 + 6

[15:28] Злой русский[14k]: i confuse colours

[15:28] Злой русский[14k]: =/

[15:28] rthspaz07[5k]: ah black to play :P

[15:28] rthspaz07[5k]: we are developing encloser

Move 0 + 7

[15:28] rthspaz07[5k]: how does this look?

[15:28] Злой русский[14k]: oh as for black f4

[15:28] Злой русский[14k]: looks that black worries much about territory)

[15:29] rthspaz07[5k]: does f4 help group the top right corner?

[15:29] Злой русский[14k]: wait

[15:29] rthspaz07[5k]: we are right now just looking at developing the top right corner

[15:29] Злой русский[14k]: ah ok

[15:29] rthspaz07[5k]: to build up moyo

[15:30] rthspaz07[5k]: the top right is a strong base and because of that we would like not to play too close

[15:30] Злой русский[14k]: can we play on the 4th line?

[15:30] rthspaz07[5k]: r 10 is good

[15:30] Pander[14k]: L16 too slow?

Move 0 + 7

[15:30] rthspaz07[5k]: l16 extends but in wrong direction

[15:30] rthspaz07[5k]: think of the top right like a wall

[15:31] rthspaz07[5k]: do you extend from this wall on top or the right?

[15:31] Pander[14k]: Ah. P10 or P11 maybe?

[15:31] saxmaam[14k]: right

Move 0 + 9

[15:31] rthspaz07[5k]: think of moyo like building house

[15:31] rthspaz07[5k]: you much start with a base

[15:32] rthspaz07[5k]: which in this case is the top right corner

[15:32] rthspaz07[5k]: then you must build the walls

[15:32] rthspaz07[5k]: 1 and 2 is that

[15:32] rthspaz07[5k]: as the game goes on the ceiling will be put into place

Move 0 + 7

[15:32] rthspaz07[5k]: keep in mind that alot of positions can be invadable

[15:33] rthspaz07[5k]: including this

[15:33] rthspaz07[5k]: but any invasion black will hold a big advantage

[15:33] rthspaz07[5k]: ok

[15:34] rthspaz07[5k]: i think we should understand now what the 3-4 corner means when we play

[15:34] rthspaz07[5k]: usually needs follow up by either player

[15:34] RevarIsavé[13k]: So..

[15:34] RevarIsavé[13k]: If we play 3-4 and then elsewhere during to opening we should/have to get back there because we "owe" a move, right?

[15:34] rthspaz07[5k]: and after enclosure we develop by extending away from it

[15:35] rthspaz07[5k]: we dont owe it but it is a good move

[15:35] rthspaz07[5k]: remember it is about preference at this point

[15:35] rthspaz07[5k]: for example

Move 0 + 5

[15:35] rthspaz07[5k]: why A and not p17?

[15:35] rthspaz07[5k]: this is a strategy

[15:36] rthspaz07[5k]: white would like black not to enclose the corner right?

Move 0 + 6

[15:36] rthspaz07[5k]: so what happens if white goes here

[15:37] rthspaz07[5k]: well lets look at the simple joseki i showed earlier

Move 0 + 11

[15:37] rthspaz07[5k]: oh man

[15:37] rthspaz07[5k]: now white cant extend to A

[15:37] rthspaz07[5k]: because black is there already

[15:38] rthspaz07[5k]: so certain moves are about preference

[15:38] rthspaz07[5k]: you dont have to enclose the corner

[15:38] rthspaz07[5k]: but it is a big move

[15:38] rthspaz07[5k]: and you can develop from it

Move 0 + 1

[15:38] rthspaz07[5k]: did i answer that good enough?

[15:39] rthspaz07[5k]: key thinks here is first direction this move is the top to enclose or approach

[15:39] saxmaam[14k]: ok

[15:39] rthspaz07[5k]: then if you enclose you can develop it allow the right by playing away from it like r10 and q10

[15:40] rthspaz07[5k]: along not allow*

[15:40] rthspaz07[5k]: yea saxmaam

[15:41] rthspaz07[5k]: please if you have questions ask

[15:41] saxmaam[14k]: no questions, sorry

[15:41] rthspaz07[5k]: ah i se

[15:41] rthspaz07[5k]: see

[15:41] RevarIsavé[13k]: I got one but I think it's better for later. I want to see what else you got prepared first

[15:41] rthspaz07[5k]: ok now that we understand basics of this corner lets move to another

[15:41] rthspaz07[5k]: k

Move 0 + 1

[15:41] rthspaz07[5k]: ok the 3-3

[15:41] rthspaz07[5k]: what do we know about this?

[15:42] saxmaam[14k]: secure but small

[15:42] rthspaz07[5k]: any take a stab at it

[15:42] rthspaz07[5k]: perfect

[15:42] Pander[14k]: secures corner. Common invasion point.

[15:42] rthspaz07[5k]: look at it as a corner move not invasion

[15:42] rthspaz07[5k]: lets say this is blacks first move

[15:42] rthspaz07[5k]: secure but small

[15:42] rthspaz07[5k]: is great way to put it

[15:43] rthspaz07[5k]: ok knowing that is it good for white to approach right away?

[15:43] saxmaam[14k]: I'd think not

[15:43] rthspaz07[5k]: or for black to do an enclosure

[15:43] rthspaz07[5k]: right

[15:43] BulletD0dger[12k]: corner isn't interesting anymore when there are bigger places to play

[15:44] rthspaz07[5k]: perfect

[15:44] rthspaz07[5k]: due to the softness or smallnest of this move there is no urgency to develop and or approach this move

[15:44] rthspaz07[5k]: it is symmetric

[15:44] rthspaz07[5k]: so we dont know what side to approach from

[15:45] rthspaz07[5k]: enclosing is still good but not urgent because whiite really doesnt have a great approach that will give him much

[15:45] rthspaz07[5k]: so better to play away

[15:45] BulletD0dger[12k]: is approach 4-4 considered not as good since is it now black who has the first move?

[15:45] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

[15:46] rthspaz07[5k]: but you can still do it

[15:46] rthspaz07[5k]: lets say that black has made some moves on the board

Move 0 + 5

[15:46] rthspaz07[5k]: now black has built up a good framework right

[15:46] rthspaz07[5k]: lots of influence

[15:46] saxmaam[14k]: influence?

[15:47] saxmaam[14k]: I hear peopel talk about 3d line as territoria

[15:47] rthspaz07[5k]: these 3 stones has influence in the following areas

[15:47] saxmaam[14k]: in aggregate, then

[15:47] rthspaz07[5k]: we will get to that :P

[15:48] rthspaz07[5k]: just know that black here has 3 stones and white does not so the black has influence here

[15:48] rthspaz07[5k]: a good way to approach the corner to try to negate the influence would be

Move 0 + 6

[15:48] rthspaz07[5k]: here and ill show basic joseki

Move 0 + 10

[15:48] spatula[15k]: would stones at p10 k16 work as well?

Move 0 + 12

[15:49] rthspaz07[5k]: q10 but yea

[15:49] rthspaz07[5k]: i am not focusing on 3rd or 4th line yet

[15:49] spatula[15k]: or is it better to put it in the 3rd line?

[15:49] rthspaz07[5k]: i have something that goes over that

[15:49] rthspaz07[5k]: :P

Move 0 + 8

[15:49] spatula[15k]: ok:)

Move 0 + 5

[15:50] rthspaz07[5k]: just saying that normally playing close to the 3-3 is not urgent and black usually plays away as well

Move 0 + 1

[15:50] rthspaz07[5k]: but lets say it is time to approach

[15:51] rthspaz07[5k]: E, C, F, G, H as soon basic ways to do that

Move 0 + 2

[15:51] rthspaz07[5k]: just keep in mind what the approaches mean

[15:52] rthspaz07[5k]: if you approach from this direction you are aiming for the right

[15:52] rthspaz07[5k]: and black will take top

Move 0 + 8

[15:52] rthspaz07[5k]: for example

Move 0 + 8

[15:52] rthspaz07[5k]: a move on top is to aim for the top

[15:52] rthspaz07[5k]: but notice here how much black gets

[15:53] rthspaz07[5k]: white really could not add pressure

[15:53] rthspaz07[5k]: due to the safeness of the 3-3 point

Move 0 + 5

[15:54] rthspaz07[5k]: just some examples

[15:54] rthspaz07[5k]: ok so 3-3 is safe but small and not urgent to play near

[15:54] rthspaz07[5k]: so

Move 0

[15:55] RevarIsavé[13k]: What's a good combination with the 3-3?

Move 0 + 4

[15:55] rthspaz07[5k]: well i would not recommend black doing 2 like this

Move 0 + 3

[15:55] RevarIsavé[13k]: Much secure, such small tho

Move 0 + 4

[15:55] rthspaz07[5k]: so if black did 3-3 then 4-4

[15:56] rthspaz07[5k]: no need to play close to blacks corners

[15:56] rthspaz07[5k]: and white has a 3-4 open

[15:56] rthspaz07[5k]: so good to approach

Move 0 + 11

[15:56] rthspaz07[5k]: good extention from the 3-3 and prevent enclosure

[15:57] rthspaz07[5k]: so one way to use the 3-3

[15:57] rthspaz07[5k]: but using 2 3-3 i would not prefer or teach

Move 0 + 1

[15:57] rthspaz07[5k]: so 3-3 small but secure not really good move to approach not urgent

[15:58] rthspaz07[5k]: ok next we move to the 4-4

Move 0 + 1

[15:58] rthspaz07[5k]: what about this move?

[15:58] saxmaam[14k]: have to be flexible

[15:58] RevarIsavé[13k]: Going for more territory in the corner but easy to invade

[15:58] RevarIsavé[13k]: or attack at least

[15:58] rthspaz07[5k]: yep and yep

[15:58] rthspaz07[5k]: flexible

[15:59] rthspaz07[5k]: so is a follow up move urgent/

[15:59] rthspaz07[5k]: ?

[15:59] besanit[14k]: depends?

[15:59] rthspaz07[5k]: on?

[15:59] saxmaam[14k]: not until W gets near?

[15:59] besanit[14k]: your plan and the rest of the board

[16:00] rthspaz07[5k]: ok normally this move is flexible

[16:00] rthspaz07[5k]: neither white or black knows which side to approach

[16:00] rthspaz07[5k]: so this corner develops from distance like the 3-3 point

Move 0 + 5

[16:01] rthspaz07[5k]: can be at A or B as well

Move 0 + 1

[16:01] rthspaz07[5k]: when we play this always remember that white can C

[16:01] rthspaz07[5k]: the 3-3 invasion

Move 0 + 2

[16:02] rthspaz07[5k]: ok white took the corner now what do you do?

Move 0 + 3

[16:02] rthspaz07[5k]: block right

[16:02] RevarIsavé[13k]: Ay

[16:02] saxmaam[14k]: eah

[16:02] rthspaz07[5k]: as of right now dont worry about which side to block from

[16:03] rthspaz07[5k]: this is basic joseki

Move 0 + 8

[16:03] RevarIsavé[13k]: Black can o18

Move 0 + 13

[16:03] rthspaz07[5k]: yes but depends on what black once

[16:03] RevarIsavé[13k]: Yeah :)

[16:03] rthspaz07[5k]: for this example this is good enough and much more common

Move 0 + 5

[16:04] RevarIsavé[13k]: That's where my questions begin

Move 0 + 2

[16:04] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

[16:04] RevarIsavé[13k]: For example

[16:04] RevarIsavé[13k]: Let's say black has something on on the upper side

Move 0 + 4

[16:04] rthspaz07[5k]: like this?

[16:04] RevarIsavé[13k]: Like that

[16:04] RevarIsavé[13k]: Then white plays the 3-3

[16:05] rthspaz07[5k]: ok great questions

[16:05] rthspaz07[5k]: which to block?

[16:05] RevarIsavé[13k]: My current thinking would be..

[16:05] RevarIsavé[13k]: Wait

[16:05] saxmaam[14k]: A

[16:05] besanit[14k]: r17

[16:05] rthspaz07[5k]: sorry go ahead

[16:05] rthspaz07[5k]: revarlsave go ahead?

[16:06] RevarIsavé[13k]: I say

[16:06] RevarIsavé[13k]: You go ahead and in the meantime I figure out a way to say what I want to say

[16:06] RevarIsavé[13k]: ^^

[16:06] rthspaz07[5k]: k

[16:06] rthspaz07[5k]: ill show both ways and you guys let me know which looks better

Move 0 + 15

[16:07] rthspaz07[5k]: which is better

[16:07] rthspaz07[5k]: this one

[16:07] rthspaz07[5k]: or 2?

[16:07] rthspaz07[5k]: 1

Move 0 + 15

[16:07] rthspaz07[5k]: or 2

Move 0 + 14

[16:08] RevarIsavé[13k]: I like 2 better

Move 0 + 15

[16:08] saxmaam[14k]: 2

[16:08] rthspaz07[5k]: you like this one?

[16:08] saxmaam[14k]: yes

[16:08] RevarIsavé[13k]: Oh

[16:08] RevarIsavé[13k]: No the other

[16:08] besanit[14k]: no

[16:08] rthspaz07[5k]: everyone else give there response

Move 0 + 15

[16:08] rthspaz07[5k]: 1 here

[16:08] RevarIsavé[13k]: This

[16:08] RevarIsavé[13k]: 1

[16:08] besanit[14k]: 1

[16:08] rthspaz07[5k]: or 2

Move 0 + 15

[16:09] besanit[14k]: i think is clearer if you hava a w stone in q10

Move 0 + 17

[16:09] saxmaam[14k]: I'll change to 1, since W can do something irritating lik r11 in 2

Move 0 + 19

[16:10] rthspaz07[5k]: yea 1 is better

Move 0 + 15

[16:10] rthspaz07[5k]: A becomes an extension from a wall

Move 0 + 15

[16:10] rthspaz07[5k]: extension in wrong direction

Move 0 + 1

[16:11] RevarIsavé[13k]: Then back to my question

[16:11] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

[16:11] RevarIsavé[13k]: Please go to the variation with black k16 and white r17

Move 0 + 4

[16:12] rthspaz07[5k]: yea

Move 0 + 9

[16:12] RevarIsavé[13k]: So

[16:12] RevarIsavé[13k]: Black could block, we saw that

Move 0 + 4

[16:12] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

Move 0 + 9

[16:12] RevarIsavé[13k]: Variation: Could this be an option too?

Move 0 + 4

[16:13] rthspaz07[5k]: yes

Move 0 + 9

[16:13] RevarIsavé[13k]: I'm thinking

[16:13] rthspaz07[5k]: ok what is the result here?

[16:13] rthspaz07[5k]: what does white normally do?

[16:13] rthspaz07[5k]: by the way this happens frequently not just in this corner but anyway on board

[16:14] rthspaz07[5k]: the double hane

Move 0 + 4

[16:14] besanit[14k]: atari

Move 0 + 9

[16:14] saxmaam[14k]: b gets corner while W gets ponnuki

Move 0 + 4

[16:14] besanit[14k]: and then atari

Move 0 + 9

[16:14] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

Move 0 + 15

[16:14] rthspaz07[5k]: white get ponuki

[16:15] RevarIsavé[13k]: Now here's what I'm wondering..

[16:15] rthspaz07[5k]: this shape is ponuki btw

[16:15] RevarIsavé[13k]: Because of k16 white can't extend much

[16:15] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

[16:15] RevarIsavé[13k]: Maybe even a chance to kill?

[16:15] RevarIsavé[13k]: hm... probably not

Move 0 + 16

[16:16] rthspaz07[5k]: running fight but i say it would be hard to kill

Move 0 + 18

[16:16] saxmaam[14k]: but this isn't nearly as good for B in most cases, right?

[16:16] rthspaz07[5k]: 2 eyes right

[16:16] rthspaz07[5k]: this is depending on board

Move 0 + 15

[16:17] RevarIsavé[13k]: Mhm

[16:17] rthspaz07[5k]: so you much think is this better for me than

Move 0 + 15

[16:17] rthspaz07[5k]: this

[16:17] RevarIsavé[13k]: Nay

[16:17] RevarIsavé[13k]: Looking at the other situation I'd probably go with the block

[16:17] rthspaz07[5k]: so early in games this is better

[16:17] RevarIsavé[13k]: To this

[16:18] rthspaz07[5k]: but latter on if white is nearby that can easily invade this and reduce you to nothing then other joseki is better right?

Move 0 + 15

[16:18] RevarIsavé[13k]: Depends on which side, no?

[16:18] RevarIsavé[13k]: I mean, on which side white is nearby

[16:19] rthspaz07[5k]: well for this variition lets say this is only way to block

[16:19] RevarIsavé[13k]: Okay

[16:19] rthspaz07[5k]: here white doesnt get much but can run and should live

[16:19] rthspaz07[5k]: and black gets some points in corner

Move 0 + 15

[16:20] rthspaz07[5k]: other white gets the points but you get potential by large framework

Move 0 + 15

[16:21] besanit[14k]: but this option makes no sense with the first block

Move 0 + 4

[16:21] besanit[14k]: if you want this you block the other way

Move 0 + 15

[16:22] rthspaz07[5k]: like this

Move 0 + 15

[16:22] besanit[14k]: yes in that way

Move 0 + 15

[16:22] besanit[14k]: you keep your potential

[16:22] rthspaz07[5k]: kinda

[16:22] rthspaz07[5k]: since white is not surrounded not quite the same

[16:22] besanit[14k]: yes

[16:23] rthspaz07[5k]: revarlsave

[16:23] rthspaz07[5k]: does that help?

[16:23] RevarIsavé[13k]: Yes

[16:23] RevarIsavé[13k]: Thank you

[16:23] rthspaz07[5k]: usually you have to evaluate the board position then determine which is best then continuue

[16:23] besanit[14k]: until when can you do a 3-3 invasion

[16:23] rthspaz07[5k]: and in alot of cases in fuseki it is preference

Move 0 + 1

[16:24] rthspaz07[5k]: ok

[16:24] rthspaz07[5k]: now lets look at some examples of when white approaches and how it affects the corner

Move 0 + 2

[16:24] rthspaz07[5k]: ok why do we make this move?

[16:25] saxmaam[14k]: two possibilities

[16:25] rthspaz07[5k]: whats the primary thought here

[16:25] saxmaam[14k]: either push into corner or take some side?

[16:25] RevarIsavé[13k]: We put pressure on the corner, stop black from enclosing in that direction and depending on the response white might get to the corner

[16:25] BulletD0dger[12k]: it's flexible and depending on white's response you have options, but initially you are emphasizing the side

[16:26] BulletD0dger[12k]: if black pincers and decides he wants the side you can still invade the corner

[16:26] rthspaz07[5k]: right

[16:26] rthspaz07[5k]: we aim at taking corner

[16:26] rthspaz07[5k]: or threaten it at least

[16:26] RevarIsavé[13k]: I like joseki with thr 4-4

[16:27] RevarIsavé[13k]: Until my opponent is better than me and responds with something that is not a common exchange

[16:27] RevarIsavé[13k]: And then I fail in answering :D

[16:27] rthspaz07[5k]: normally simple response is to mimic the move on other side since not being surround is good idea

Move 0 + 3

[16:27] rthspaz07[5k]: then threaten corner again

Move 0 + 6

[16:28] rthspaz07[5k]: notice with this joseki that white seems bigger than black

[16:28] rthspaz07[5k]: why?

[16:28] rthspaz07[5k]: how is this even?

[16:28] saxmaam[14k]: B has sente

[16:28] rthspaz07[5k]: yea

[16:28] rthspaz07[5k]: exactly

Move 0 + 1

[16:29] rthspaz07[5k]: some other approaches are 2,3 and 4

[16:29] rthspaz07[5k]: how about enclosures?

Move 0 + 3

[16:29] rthspaz07[5k]: does this secure the corner?

[16:29] BulletD0dger[12k]: no you need one more

[16:30] rthspaz07[5k]: where can white play

[16:30] rthspaz07[5k]: there may be a few

[16:30] BulletD0dger[12k]: R16

[16:30] saxmaam[14k]: I never know what to do about trying to enclose with 4-4 ... too many moves required

[16:30] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

[16:30] rthspaz07[5k]: which is why when you develop you develop away

[16:30] BulletD0dger[12k]: i think if you want the corner then play 3-4 to begin with

[16:31] saxmaam[14k]: by developing away , you mean ... ?

[16:31] RevarIsavé[13k]: I've seen B often lately

[16:31] rthspaz07[5k]: white has many options

[16:31] RevarIsavé[13k]: But I don't know what to do with it

Move 0 + 8

[16:31] rthspaz07[5k]: joseki for it

Move 0 + 3

[16:32] rthspaz07[5k]: but the key here is not the josekis

[16:32] rthspaz07[5k]: but rather that even if play tries to enclose that white an still get in there

[16:33] rthspaz07[5k]: but i still see this played

[16:33] rthspaz07[5k]: now if white approaches

Move 0 + 4

[16:33] rthspaz07[5k]: much easier to gain from it

[16:33] rthspaz07[5k]: or can pincer

Move 0 + 1

[16:34] rthspaz07[5k]: ok i think we understand now what the 4-4 means for fuseki

[16:34] rthspaz07[5k]: so we hit the 3-4, 3-3, and now the 4-4

[16:34] rthspaz07[5k]: lets look at anothehr

[16:34] rthspaz07[5k]: another*

Move 0 + 1

[16:34] rthspaz07[5k]: ok

[16:35] rthspaz07[5k]: what does this say?

[16:35] saxmaam[14k]: I want the top?

[16:35] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

[16:35] RevarIsavé[13k]: Doesn't it say

[16:35] rthspaz07[5k]: this focuses on the dop

[16:36] RevarIsavé[13k]: "You go where you want, I'm fine with the side OR the corner"?

[16:36] rthspaz07[5k]: yes that is also good

[16:37] rthspaz07[5k]: white normally responds at c, b, or d

Move 0 + 2

[16:37] rthspaz07[5k]: so what black does to focus on top is to press down on white

Move 0 + 5

[16:38] rthspaz07[5k]: to build up a wall

[16:38] rthspaz07[5k]: and white gets the corner

Move 0 + 2

[16:39] rthspaz07[5k]: here is similar

[16:39] rthspaz07[5k]: with basic joseki

Move 0 + 6

[16:39] rthspaz07[5k]: again focusing on top

Move 0 + 2

[16:40] rthspaz07[5k]: ok here white aims for side and will give black corner

Move 0 + 6

[16:40] rthspaz07[5k]: but

Move 0 + 7

[16:40] rthspaz07[5k]: black can invade at A or extend on B

Move 0 + 1

[16:41] saxmaam[14k]: how does invasion at A work out?

Move 0 + 9

[16:41] rthspaz07[5k]: ok where does why respond/

[16:41] rthspaz07[5k]: ?

[16:41] saxmaam[14k]: p13?

Move 0 + 11

[16:42] rthspaz07[5k]: you let black out

[16:42] rthspaz07[5k]: and black can s15 to connect ifyou surround

[16:42] RevarIsavé[13k]: white q12 instead

Move 0 + 12

[16:43] rthspaz07[5k]: the point here is s16 right/

[16:43] rthspaz07[5k]: no matter what white does

Move 0 + 9

[16:43] rthspaz07[5k]: right?

[16:43] rthspaz07[5k]: without s16

[16:44] rthspaz07[5k]: hard to connect

[16:44] saxmaam[14k]: I seem to get hung up on this one, during games.

[16:44] saxmaam[14k]: but I see what you are saying

[16:44] rthspaz07[5k]: well normally s16 is not there then diffferenct story

Move 0 + 1

[16:45] rthspaz07[5k]: ok enclosure for this move?

Move 0 + 3

[16:45] rthspaz07[5k]: how about this

[16:45] saxmaam[14k]: sure

[16:45] rthspaz07[5k]: what does this look like?

[16:46] RevarIsavé[13k]: Just like the enclosure the other way round

[16:46] saxmaam[14k]: 4-3

[16:46] saxmaam[14k]: sure

[16:46] rthspaz07[5k]: yea the 3-4 enclosure

[16:46] rthspaz07[5k]: this can revert to it

Move 0 + 3

[16:46] rthspaz07[5k]: how about this?

[16:47] rthspaz07[5k]: is this the same as the 3-4 enclosure/

[16:47] rthspaz07[5k]: ?

[16:47] RevarIsavé[13k]: NAy

[16:47] RevarIsavé[13k]: Leaves aji in the corner

[16:47] saxmaam[14k]: no

[16:47] rthspaz07[5k]: yes

[16:47] rthspaz07[5k]: here

Move 0 + 4

[16:48] rthspaz07[5k]: remember that with invasions you might not live but the point is to reduce the area that opponent would get without invading

Move 0 + 3

[16:49] RevarIsavé[13k]: How did the saying go..

[16:49] RevarIsavé[13k]: Attacking isn't always for killing.

[16:49] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

[16:49] RevarIsavé[13k]: But attacks should gain you something, even if you can't kill

[16:49] rthspaz07[5k]: sometimes you want to let them run and gain while it does

[16:50] rthspaz07[5k]: ok this is opposite of the A enclosure

[16:50] rthspaz07[5k]: it is very secure maybe even too secure

[16:50] rthspaz07[5k]: why do this why you can get more with B

[16:50] rthspaz07[5k]: but maybe that is what you want an enclosure that you dont need to worry about

Move 0 + 1

[16:51] rthspaz07[5k]: ok so lets say you would not like enclose a good way to develop

[16:51] rthspaz07[5k]: a good move would be around A

Move 0 + 3

[16:52] rthspaz07[5k]: now if white approaches corner

Move 0 + 8

[16:52] rthspaz07[5k]: A is now in perfect spot

Move 0

[16:53] rthspaz07[5k]: ok not much to the 3-5

[16:53] rthspaz07[5k]: but a very similar move is the 4-5

Move 0 + 1

[16:54] rthspaz07[5k]: once again this aims for the top but may allow white underneath when the corner joseki happens

[16:54] rthspaz07[5k]: now black can enclose just like the 3-4

[16:54] rthspaz07[5k]: 3-5

[16:54] rthspaz07[5k]: i mean

[16:54] saxmaam[14k]: So why play 4-5?

[16:54] rthspaz07[5k]: good point

[16:55] RevarIsavé[13k]: Then why play anything besides the 3-3 ;P

[16:55] RevarIsavé[13k]: Because... (drumroll) balance

[16:55] saxmaam[14k]: ?

[16:55] rthspaz07[5k]: give me sec

[16:56] RevarIsavé[13k]: There's approaches to everything

[16:56] rthspaz07[5k]: the 4-5 has more influence towards center

[16:56] rthspaz07[5k]: but allows white underneath so trade

[16:56] rthspaz07[5k]: not very common move however

[16:56] rthspaz07[5k]: but is played

[16:57] rthspaz07[5k]: does that answer your questions

[16:57] saxmaam[14k]: yes

[16:57] rthspaz07[5k]: i will show some joseki to help understand this point some

[16:57] saxmaam[14k]: though developing the center seems tough compared to sides

[16:57] rthspaz07[5k]: it is

[16:57] rthspaz07[5k]: but center influence is not always about territory

[16:57] rthspaz07[5k]: but fighting

[16:58] rthspaz07[5k]: the more influence you have in an area the easier it is for you to fight and be aggressive

[16:58] rthspaz07[5k]: thus more potential gain

Move 0 + 2

[16:58] rthspaz07[5k]: her is one approach white can do

Move 0 + 8

[16:59] rthspaz07[5k]: black can choose this joeski

Move 0 + 2

[16:59] rthspaz07[5k]: here is another approach

Move 0 + 3

[17:00] rthspaz07[5k]: now black as option of take the right

Move 0 + 5

[17:00] rthspaz07[5k]: reverts to the 3-4 opening joseki

Move 0 + 3

[17:01] rthspaz07[5k]: this reverts back to the 3-3 joseki approacch

[17:01] rthspaz07[5k]: but as you notice the 3-5 also has flexibility to revert to other corners joseki

Move 0 + 1

[17:02] rthspaz07[5k]: and with the 3-5 you can also choose to develop along the top with C or D

[17:02] rthspaz07[5k]: ok

[17:02] rthspaz07[5k]: now that we have gone over the basic corner moves ill show a 14 move fuseki example from a pro game

Move 0 + 3

[17:03] rthspaz07[5k]: black here chooses to enclose his corner immediately

Move 0 + 4

[17:03] rthspaz07[5k]: white chooses 3-3

Move 0 + 5

[17:04] rthspaz07[5k]: and black another 3-4

[17:04] rthspaz07[5k]: as we should know by now this is not a parrellel fuseki

[17:04] rthspaz07[5k]: as each color is in opposite corners which leads to a more fighting game

[17:05] rthspaz07[5k]: so where do you think white moved?

[17:05] rthspaz07[5k]: whats the big points here?

[17:05] saxmaam[14k]: c5

[17:05] saxmaam[14k]: and middle of each side

[17:05] rthspaz07[5k]: c5

[17:05] rthspaz07[5k]: good anyone else?

[17:05] BulletD0dger[12k]: i think the biggest moves would be to prevent black getting an extension from the corner enclosure or approaching the D3

[17:06] saxmaam[14k]: like

[17:06] BulletD0dger[12k]: but if you play R10, black can play C5

[17:06] BulletD0dger[12k]: so i guess D5 would be the most important?

[17:06] rthspaz07[5k]: that is good you are right

[17:06] rthspaz07[5k]: so lets see where this pro decided to play

Move 0 + 6

[17:06] rthspaz07[5k]: here to prevent a 2nd enclosure

[17:07] rthspaz07[5k]: black chooses to pincer

Move 0 + 7

[17:07] rthspaz07[5k]: ok joseki now

Move 0 + 10

[17:07] rthspaz07[5k]: that is joseki

[17:07] rthspaz07[5k]: well wait

Move 0 + 11

[17:08] rthspaz07[5k]: ok now joseki lol

[17:08] rthspaz07[5k]: ok now that joseki is at topping point

[17:08] rthspaz07[5k]: where is the big point now?

[17:08] BulletD0dger[12k]: R10

[17:08] BulletD0dger[12k]: right side is biggest

[17:08] rthspaz07[5k]: yea the right side

[17:08] rthspaz07[5k]: good

[17:09] rthspaz07[5k]: and lets see where white chose to play

Move 0 + 12

[17:09] rthspaz07[5k]: good bullet

[17:09] BulletD0dger[12k]: thanks :)

[17:09] rthspaz07[5k]: now the next move is harder to understand but so ill show

Move 0 + 14

[17:10] rthspaz07[5k]: ok

[17:10] rthspaz07[5k]: that is the 14 moves

[17:10] rthspaz07[5k]: white chose q4 because he can q6 to help out r11 or invade at B

[17:10] rthspaz07[5k]: but this just any example of big moves

[17:11] rthspaz07[5k]: ok now we will go over another good concept

Move 0

[17:11] rthspaz07[5k]: extending to the sides

[17:11] rthspaz07[5k]: 2 things to consider

[17:12] rthspaz07[5k]: 3rd line or 4th line

Move 0 + 4

[17:12] rthspaz07[5k]: ok here is a basic 4 moves sequence

[17:12] rthspaz07[5k]: now it is blacks turn

[17:12] rthspaz07[5k]: we will focus on 2 areas here

[17:12] rthspaz07[5k]: the left and right side

[17:13] rthspaz07[5k]: lets say you extend from both 4-4 corners of black play on right

[17:13] rthspaz07[5k]: 4th line or 3rd line?

[17:13] rthspaz07[5k]: A or B?

[17:13] saxmaam[14k]: I usually choose 3d, just for balance

[17:13] rthspaz07[5k]: and why?

[17:14] BulletD0dger[12k]: well 4th line would be more consistent with your other 2 stones

[17:14] rthspaz07[5k]: i would say there is no best move but on right i would say 4th line

Move 0 + 6

[17:14] BulletD0dger[12k]: say you play at A, then for balance maybe you can play at R13 or R7 later

[17:15] rthspaz07[5k]: i see

[17:15] rthspaz07[5k]: well for building moyos and framework the 4th line is usually used

[17:15] rthspaz07[5k]: the 4th line is for building

Move 0 + 4

[17:15] rthspaz07[5k]: ok how about the left side

[17:15] rthspaz07[5k]: C or D

[17:16] rthspaz07[5k]: and why?

[17:16] saxmaam[14k]: does the reasoning change for white?

[17:17] rthspaz07[5k]: it is blacks move?

[17:17] BulletD0dger[12k]: yea I don't see the difference btw the 2 sides

[17:17] BulletD0dger[12k]: oooh

[17:17] RevarIsavé[13k]: I'm not sure if I remember correctly but I think I read that white sanrensei is common if black plays territorial on the opposing site

[17:17] rthspaz07[5k]: black to move

[17:17] RevarIsavé[13k]: Oh

[17:17] saxmaam[14k]: OK, so as Black I'd like C

[17:17] rthspaz07[5k]: C

[17:17] saxmaam[14k]: can make a bse

[17:18] rthspaz07[5k]: perfect

Move 0 + 5

[17:18] BulletD0dger[12k]: C then if it is black's move because you are coming in btw his "moyo" so you want to play a little more defensively?

[17:18] rthspaz07[5k]: yeas 3rd line is for base

[17:18] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

[17:18] RevarIsavé[13k]: Now how to respond?

Move 0 + 4

[17:19] rthspaz07[5k]: as white

Move 0 + 5

[17:19] rthspaz07[5k]: well if you attack

Move 0 + 10

[17:19] rthspaz07[5k]: basic here

[17:19] rthspaz07[5k]: but

[17:19] RevarIsavé[13k]: Black gets sente?

[17:20] RevarIsavé[13k]: Well.. "gets"

[17:20] rthspaz07[5k]: lets say the corners are not 4-4 and there are other moves played

Move 0 + 4

[17:20] rthspaz07[5k]: ok so we know that right is big

Move 0 + 5

[17:20] rthspaz07[5k]: this is a big move

[17:21] rthspaz07[5k]: and if black was on A there would be more influence in right

[17:21] rthspaz07[5k]: and later if black gets the chance he can B

Move 0 + 6

[17:22] rthspaz07[5k]: what if white gets here first?

[17:22] rthspaz07[5k]: what does black do?

[17:22] rthspaz07[5k]: or can do?

[17:22] RevarIsavé[13k]: r12?

[17:22] saxmaam[14k]: r12

Move 0 + 7

[17:23] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

[17:23] rthspaz07[5k]: and it iwll be hard for white to A

[17:23] rthspaz07[5k]: since black is so strong in the corner

[17:24] rthspaz07[5k]: and black can still invade at B and do as much if not more damage

Move 0 + 6

[17:24] rthspaz07[5k]: and if black ignores white has room to extend again toward corner

Move 0 + 6

[17:25] rthspaz07[5k]: so what happens if white plays on 4th line?

[17:25] saxmaam[14k]: still nice for white

[17:25] rthspaz07[5k]: yep it is

[17:25] saxmaam[14k]: still r12?

[17:26] rthspaz07[5k]: black can still r 12

[17:26] rthspaz07[5k]: ok but what about 5th line

Move 0 + 6

[17:26] saxmaam[14k]: r11 starts to look interesting, but scary

[17:27] rthspaz07[5k]: black can just respond at A

[17:27] RevarIsavé[13k]: 3rd line - territory;

[17:27] rthspaz07[5k]: and can even B since white is too far way from board to prevent B

[17:27] RevarIsavé[13k]: 4th line - influence

[17:27] RevarIsavé[13k]: 5th line - madness

[17:27] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

[17:27] rthspaz07[5k]: lol

Move 0 + 4

[17:28] rthspaz07[5k]: ok lets look at good example of spacing of moves

Move 0 + 9

[17:28] rthspaz07[5k]: ok now

[17:28] rthspaz07[5k]: white is under attack

[17:28] rthspaz07[5k]: A or B

[17:29] saxmaam[14k]: B makes a base

[17:29] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

Move 0 + 10

[17:29] RevarIsavé[13k]: A would scream for fighting

[17:29] rthspaz07[5k]: simple

Move 0 + 11

[17:29] rthspaz07[5k]: dont think this would be much fighting

[17:29] rthspaz07[5k]: more slaughter

[17:29] rthspaz07[5k]: lol

[17:29] RevarIsavé[13k]: We're all no dans ;P

Move 0 + 17

[17:30] rthspaz07[5k]: hard to run with both whites

Move 0

[17:30] RevarIsavé[13k]: True

Move 0 + 9

[17:30] RevarIsavé[13k]: Do you have a lot more you want to cover? I still have a question from way earlier

Move 0 + 12

[17:30] rthspaz07[5k]: ok

[17:30] rthspaz07[5k]: here we are focusing on whites move

[17:31] rthspaz07[5k]: on the left side

Move 0 + 14

[17:31] rthspaz07[5k]: here

[17:31] rthspaz07[5k]: this is still a good move but narrow

[17:31] rthspaz07[5k]: would be bigger moves on board

Move 0 + 14

[17:32] rthspaz07[5k]: ok why not here/

[17:32] rthspaz07[5k]: ?

Move 0 + 17

[17:33] saxmaam[14k]: makes black stronger

[17:33] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

[17:33] rthspaz07[5k]: black is too strong and you are forces to c7

[17:33] RevarIsavé[13k]: White can tenuki now... but gave black influence as a present

[17:33] rthspaz07[5k]: so if extend better to c7

[17:33] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

Move 0 + 24

[17:34] rthspaz07[5k]: ok focusing on the black group on the left

[17:34] rthspaz07[5k]: where should he extend

[17:34] RevarIsavé[13k]: c10

Move 0 + 25

[17:34] RevarIsavé[13k]: or d11 maybe

[17:34] saxmaam[14k]: agree c10

[17:35] rthspaz07[5k]: at c10 white would be able to invade

Move 0 + 25

[17:35] RevarIsavé[13k]: Can't black push that towards the group in the corner though?

[17:35] rthspaz07[5k]: this is better but still not quite right

Move 0 + 29

[17:36] rthspaz07[5k]: like this?

[17:36] RevarIsavé[13k]: Yeah

[17:36] rthspaz07[5k]: either white takes A

[17:36] BulletD0dger[12k]: this is gonna get complicated

[17:36] rthspaz07[5k]: or white runs out

Move 0 + 34

[17:37] RevarIsavé[13k]: I see

[17:37] rthspaz07[5k]: here is tough

Move 0 + 36

[17:37] rthspaz07[5k]: can escape

Move 0 + 29

[17:38] rthspaz07[5k]: similar but now black and just

Move 0 + 27

[17:38] rthspaz07[5k]: here

[17:38] rthspaz07[5k]: and stay connected

[17:38] rthspaz07[5k]: no matter what white does black is connected

Move 0 + 27

[17:38] rthspaz07[5k]: here not the case

Move 0 + 25

[17:39] rthspaz07[5k]: 2 stones wall takes a 3 space extension

Move 0 + 24

[17:39] saxmaam[14k]: so this is an example of "from two, extend 3"

Move 0 + 25

[17:39] rthspaz07[5k]: 4 stones

Move 0 + 27

[17:39] rthspaz07[5k]: 3 stones take 4 space

[17:39] rthspaz07[5k]: 4 stones 5 space and so on

Move 0 + 22

[17:40] saxmaam[14k]: so the idea is that the higher wall can keep a larger extension connected, I guess?

[17:40] rthspaz07[5k]: but key here is black is between 2 white groups and 2 stone wall

[17:40] rthspaz07[5k]: well the higher the wall the more influence the more you will be able to press white

Move 0 + 37

[17:41] rthspaz07[5k]: you can press

[17:41] rthspaz07[5k]: or a good way to show is this

Move 0 + 39

[17:41] rthspaz07[5k]: something like this

[17:41] saxmaam[14k]: ok

[17:41] rthspaz07[5k]: where as if we reduce the wall

Move 0 + 47

[17:42] rthspaz07[5k]: doesnt work

Move 0 + 48

[17:42] RevarIsavé[13k]: Variation: Always this situation but located further inside

[17:42] RevarIsavé[13k]: Huh, sharing the variation doesn't work

[17:42] RevarIsavé[13k]: Or does it?

Move 0 + 35

[17:42] saxmaam[14k]: it did work

Move 0 + 36

[17:42] RevarIsavé[13k]: No, it isn't showing what I wanted to

[17:42] rthspaz07[5k]: hmm i only see what i put on your variation

Move 0 + 32

[17:43] rthspaz07[5k]: what were you showing

[17:43] RevarIsavé[13k]: Eh, I can't find it right now

[17:43] RevarIsavé[13k]: But it's not important

[17:44] rthspaz07[5k]: k

[17:44] rthspaz07[5k]: ok another pro example here

Move 0 + 8

[17:44] rthspaz07[5k]: ok here is blacks move

[17:45] rthspaz07[5k]: and he chose to extend his group out the left

Move 0 + 9

[17:45] rthspaz07[5k]: ok this could be considered a mistake

[17:45] rthspaz07[5k]: why?

[17:46] RevarIsavé[13k]: Now r10 can extend to both sides

[17:46] RevarIsavé[13k]: Extend to one side - black has to respond

[17:46] RevarIsavé[13k]: Then to the other

Move 0 + 10

[17:46] rthspaz07[5k]: like this?

[17:46] RevarIsavé[13k]: r10

Move 0 + 9

[17:46] RevarIsavé[13k]: I'm talking about the right side

[17:46] rthspaz07[5k]: ah we are focusing on left

[17:46] rthspaz07[5k]: :P

[17:46] RevarIsavé[13k]: Ah

[17:46] rthspaz07[5k]: on right white is ok either way

Move 0 + 11

[17:47] saxmaam[14k]: doesn't contain E17

Move 0 + 9

[17:47] saxmaam[14k]: ?

[17:47] rthspaz07[5k]: look at spacing

[17:47] rthspaz07[5k]: why is the 2 space jump considered mistake here?

[17:47] saxmaam[14k]: from 1 extend 2?

[17:47] saxmaam[14k]: I dunno

[17:48] rthspaz07[5k]: someone should know this

[17:48] rthspaz07[5k]: anyone close to 10k should know

[17:48] rthspaz07[5k]: ill give hint

[17:48] rthspaz07[5k]: involves kicking

[17:49] rthspaz07[5k]: no?

[17:49] saxmaam[14k]: looks like we get to learn something now

Move 0 + 11

[17:49] rthspaz07[5k]: because of this move

[17:49] rthspaz07[5k]: which is called "kicking" the stone

Move 0 + 48

[17:49] BulletD0dger[12k]: i must go, but thank you very much for the great review!

Move 0 + 11

[17:49] rthspaz07[5k]: yep thx for joining

[17:49] saxmaam[14k]: ok, what's so bad about this kick

[17:50] rthspaz07[5k]: black is now a 2 stones wall

[17:50] rthspaz07[5k]: and what is the spacing of a 2 stone wall?

[17:50] saxmaam[14k]: 3

[17:50] rthspaz07[5k]: where is black at?

[17:50] saxmaam[14k]: 2

[17:50] rthspaz07[5k]: thus the mistake

[17:50] rthspaz07[5k]: black can A so white much respond

Move 0 + 12

[17:51] rthspaz07[5k]: and the game continues

Move 0 + 18

[17:51] rthspaz07[5k]: ok

[17:51] rthspaz07[5k]: who favors who here?

[17:51] rthspaz07[5k]: white or black?

[17:52] saxmaam[14k]: p16 looks awkward for Black, otherwise I dunno

[17:52] rthspaz07[5k]: overall here i like white

[17:52] rthspaz07[5k]: and here is why

[17:53] rthspaz07[5k]: he took advantage of blacks mistake on left and over crowded black

[17:53] rthspaz07[5k]: and he did great extension/approach with A

[17:53] rthspaz07[5k]: since white is strong on top let and on right

[17:53] rthspaz07[5k]: white can be aggressive here with B

[17:54] rthspaz07[5k]: so white has gain the advantage i

[17:54] rthspaz07[5k]: ok

[17:54] rthspaz07[5k]: another problem ehre

[17:54] rthspaz07[5k]: here

Move 0 + 46

[17:55] rthspaz07[5k]: ok

[17:55] rthspaz07[5k]: after black 1 white 2

[17:55] rthspaz07[5k]: now how does black extend along botto

[17:55] rthspaz07[5k]: bottom

[17:56] saxmaam[14k]: is this another kick anticipation?

[17:57] rthspaz07[5k]: nope

[17:57] rthspaz07[5k]: just pick one :P

[17:57] saxmaam[14k]: then I would guess C

[17:57] rthspaz07[5k]: A-D

[17:57] saxmaam[14k]: Or c2

[17:57] rthspaz07[5k]: nope just A-D

[17:57] rthspaz07[5k]: one of those are answer

[17:57] saxmaam[14k]: C

Move 0 + 47

[17:58] rthspaz07[5k]: yea great

Move 0 + 47

[17:58] rthspaz07[5k]: if black here then white can extend on bottom and attack

Move 0 + 48

[17:58] rthspaz07[5k]: aiming at B and or A

Move 0 + 48

[17:58] rthspaz07[5k]: can just invade

Move 0 + 48

[17:59] rthspaz07[5k]: no eye spacce and good extension by white

Move 0 + 47

[18:00] rthspaz07[5k]: ok now it is whites turn

[18:00] rthspaz07[5k]: we are going to approach the enclosure on the left

[18:00] rthspaz07[5k]: where do we approah

[18:00] saxmaam[14k]: c10?

[18:00] rthspaz07[5k]: c 10

[18:00] rthspaz07[5k]: what else

[18:01] saxmaam[14k]: D14

[18:01] rthspaz07[5k]: anyone have a different opinion

[18:01] rthspaz07[5k]: anyone else?

[18:02] rthspaz07[5k]: any of these?

[18:02] rthspaz07[5k]: anyone this these are good or bad?

Move 0 + 48

[18:02] rthspaz07[5k]: this is good but i think white can afford to go 1 more

Move 0 + 48

[18:02] saxmaam[14k]: why?

[18:03] rthspaz07[5k]: because white has enough room to A

[18:03] rthspaz07[5k]: if pincered

Move 0 + 49

[18:03] saxmaam[14k]: ok

Move 0 + 48

[18:03] rthspaz07[5k]: here black can pincer effectively

Move 0 + 49

[18:03] rthspaz07[5k]: here is still good

[18:03] rthspaz07[5k]: so good job there

Move 0 + 49

[18:04] rthspaz07[5k]: the farther away we go the more black can get

Move 0 + 49

[18:04] rthspaz07[5k]: ok

[18:04] RevarIsavé[13k]: I don't like this for white

[18:05] rthspaz07[5k]: yep me neigher

Move 0 + 48

[18:05] RevarIsavé[13k]: Going in is possible but difficult because of the corner stones

[18:05] rthspaz07[5k]: this is much better

[18:05] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

[18:05] rthspaz07[5k]: ok now ill show some pro games from last month and we will go through fuseki

Move 0 + 5

[18:06] rthspaz07[5k]: ok so black encloses

Move 0 + 6

[18:06] rthspaz07[5k]: white prevents 2nd enclosure

Move 0 + 8

[18:06] rthspaz07[5k]: joseki here

Move 0 + 16

[18:07] rthspaz07[5k]: ok so what did black just do?

[18:07] rthspaz07[5k]: why gain wall by invading high

[18:08] rthspaz07[5k]: with A

[18:08] RevarIsavé[13k]: That wall supports in case of white invasion on the right

[18:08] rthspaz07[5k]: yea

Move 0 + 17

[18:08] rthspaz07[5k]: this threatens white and extends

Move 0 + 18

[18:08] rthspaz07[5k]: now where is biggest point or area/

[18:09] rthspaz07[5k]: ?

[18:09] neonjones[12k]: E4?

[18:09] rthspaz07[5k]: e4 area is big no doubt

[18:09] rthspaz07[5k]: but i think something bigger

[18:10] rthspaz07[5k]: oh by the way this game is Guo Yuzheng 4p vs Qiu Jun 9p

[18:10] RevarIsavé[13k]: q10?

[18:10] rthspaz07[5k]: played on june 17th

[18:10] neonjones[12k]: E10?

[18:10] rthspaz07[5k]: yea q10 area much bigger

[18:10] rthspaz07[5k]: why?

[18:10] RevarIsavé[13k]: \o/

[18:11] RevarIsavé[13k]: My words are failing me

[18:11] rthspaz07[5k]: why build influence if not going to use and and extends from A

Move 0 + 19

[18:11] rthspaz07[5k]: ok now white invades

[18:11] RevarIsavé[13k]: Also if white does something with c4 now black has responses on either side

[18:12] rthspaz07[5k]: but dont worry about the invasion and the moves after just see what happens after it is settled

[18:12] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

Move 0 + 30

[18:12] rthspaz07[5k]: ok after here i think white lives

[18:12] RevarIsavé[13k]: Ok ok that was too quick

Move 0 + 22

[18:13] rthspaz07[5k]: this is not so important as what happens after it is settled

[18:13] RevarIsavé[13k]: okay

[18:13] rthspaz07[5k]: the reading here is pro level

[18:13] rthspaz07[5k]: i cant explain the moves :(

Move 0 + 30

[18:13] rthspaz07[5k]: what i can tell is this

[18:14] rthspaz07[5k]: white has great shape and looks to be alive

[18:14] rthspaz07[5k]: as is black

[18:14] rthspaz07[5k]: so black took sente here

[18:14] rthspaz07[5k]: and where does he play?

Move 0 + 31

[18:15] rthspaz07[5k]: here

Move 0 + 32

[18:15] neonjones[12k]: I was too early on that move

[18:15] rthspaz07[5k]: ok dont be concerned with joseki here just look at what each gets and response after

Move 0 + 39

[18:16] rthspaz07[5k]: ok black gets wall

[18:16] rthspaz07[5k]: and white territory

[18:16] rthspaz07[5k]: so white sees influence and does what?

[18:16] rthspaz07[5k]: what area is big now?

[18:16] RevarIsavé[13k]: I'd be tempted to invade the left

[18:16] rthspaz07[5k]: after this joseki

[18:17] rthspaz07[5k]: yea left

[18:17] neonjones[12k]: E9?

[18:17] rthspaz07[5k]: perfect

Move 0 + 40

[18:17] rthspaz07[5k]: here is the move played

[18:17] rthspaz07[5k]: ok is black threatened?

[18:17] rthspaz07[5k]: on top or bottom/

[18:17] rthspaz07[5k]: ?

[18:17] rthspaz07[5k]: with this move?

[18:17] RevarIsavé[13k]: The bottom

[18:18] RevarIsavé[13k]: Or was that as "at all" question

[18:18] rthspaz07[5k]: actually not as much as you think

[18:18] RevarIsavé[13k]: hm

[18:18] rthspaz07[5k]: here black can choose to respond or play another big move

[18:18] rthspaz07[5k]: white has not threaten the live of either the top or bottom

[18:18] RevarIsavé[13k]: Which would be bottom side, yea?

[18:19] rthspaz07[5k]: the shape black has is solid

[18:19] rthspaz07[5k]: so black decides to take sente

[18:19] rthspaz07[5k]: and ignore c10 for now

Move 0 + 41

[18:20] rthspaz07[5k]: remember that white never came back to fix here

[18:20] rthspaz07[5k]: so black takes sente to take advantage

[18:20] rthspaz07[5k]: ok

[18:20] rthspaz07[5k]: that is it for this game

[18:20] rthspaz07[5k]: i have one more then be open for questions

[18:20] RevarIsavé[13k]: Ay

Move 0

[18:21] rthspaz07[5k]: this is Shin Jinseo 3p vs Yu Zhiying 5p

Move 0 + 4

[18:21] rthspaz07[5k]: played jun 17th

Move 0 + 5

[18:22] rthspaz07[5k]: enlosure again

Move 0 + 6

[18:22] rthspaz07[5k]: prevent 2nd

[18:22] rthspaz07[5k]: again

Move 0 + 16

[18:23] rthspaz07[5k]: ok next move might be confusing

[18:23] rthspaz07[5k]: but ill explain

Move 0 + 17

[18:23] rthspaz07[5k]: so why play c6 if you are going to tenuki

[18:23] rthspaz07[5k]: well treat c6 like a probe

[18:23] rthspaz07[5k]: black played to ask white what is your plan

[18:24] rthspaz07[5k]: once he saw c8 then he knew and decided to go approach top left

Move 0 + 18

[18:24] rthspaz07[5k]: ok this is extension from c8 and pincer on c14

[18:24] rthspaz07[5k]: good move

[18:25] rthspaz07[5k]: after theh top joseki

[18:25] rthspaz07[5k]: black comes back to bottom left

[18:25] rthspaz07[5k]: top joseki very complicated

[18:25] rthspaz07[5k]: just remember outcome then what they play

Move 0 + 19

[18:25] rthspaz07[5k]: this is common to pincer attack btw

Move 0 + 35

[18:26] rthspaz07[5k]: ok wall vs territory again

[18:26] rthspaz07[5k]: so white chooses to address blacks influence

Move 0 + 36

[18:27] LesTrois[22k]: Hey

[18:27] rthspaz07[5k]: and black takes sente to address bottom left

[18:27] rthspaz07[5k]: yea

Move 0 + 45

[18:27] RevarIsavé[13k]: I was thinking about that, yush \o/

Move 0 + 46

[18:27] rthspaz07[5k]: ok a few more moves then ill stop with this game

Move 0 + 47

[18:28] LesTrois[22k]: Is this a pro game?

[18:28] rthspaz07[5k]: yep

[18:28] rthspaz07[5k]: played last month

[18:28] LesTrois[22k]: awesome

[18:28] rthspaz07[5k]: black here attacks white

Move 0 + 49

[18:28] rthspaz07[5k]: r17

[18:28] rthspaz07[5k]: is a probe

[18:28] rthspaz07[5k]: there is aji

[18:28] rthspaz07[5k]: usually used for ko fights if need or last resort kinda

[18:29] rthspaz07[5k]: if losing

[18:29] rthspaz07[5k]: but right here is huge move

Move 0 + 50

[18:29] rthspaz07[5k]: BAM

[18:29] rthspaz07[5k]: look at whites left

[18:29] rthspaz07[5k]: and lets say we switch the what stone with black

Move 0 + 56

[18:30] rthspaz07[5k]: hugge

[18:30] rthspaz07[5k]: move

[18:30] RevarIsavé[13k]: https://twitter.com/OnlineGoServer/status/598192085137653760

[18:30] rthspaz07[5k]: white did win this game btw but not so important

[18:30] rthspaz07[5k]: ah what is this?

[18:30] RevarIsavé[13k]: A response to white g11 ;)

[18:31] rthspaz07[5k]: lol

Move 0 + 50

[18:31] rthspaz07[5k]: white has huge moyo

[18:31] rthspaz07[5k]: but still aji all over though

[18:31] RevarIsavé[13k]: https://twitter.com/OnlineGoServer/status/619134604708966400

[18:31] rthspaz07[5k]: ok now i hope that everyone here understands why each corner is saying

[18:31] rthspaz07[5k]: and how to approach and enclose them

[18:32] rthspaz07[5k]: 1 more thing to learn is pincers

[18:32] rthspaz07[5k]: ill go over quickly

Move 0

[18:32] RevarIsavé[13k]: I feel like the timing is very important too

[18:32] RevarIsavé[13k]: Like in the last game you showed us

[18:32] rthspaz07[5k]: the pincer?

Move 0 + 2

[18:32] RevarIsavé[13k]: The probe in the bottom left coner

[18:32] RevarIsavé[13k]: *corner

[18:32] rthspaz07[5k]: ah yea

[18:32] rthspaz07[5k]: ok here

Move 0 + 3

[18:33] rthspaz07[5k]: common pincer is this

[18:33] rthspaz07[5k]: im sure you guys have seen this right/

[18:33] rthspaz07[5k]: ?

[18:33] rthspaz07[5k]: 2 responses which are up to you and you have to be able to accept either

[18:33] rthspaz07[5k]: A or B usually

[18:34] RevarIsavé[13k]: Ya

[18:34] RevarIsavé[13k]: Though

[18:34] rthspaz07[5k]: A takes corner and B influence

Move 0 + 4

[18:34] RevarIsavé[13k]: From the people I watched play+comment most tended to dislike A

[18:34] RevarIsavé[13k]: Wait. I mean B

[18:34] LesTrois[22k]: Ya but B gives black a lot of territory

[18:34] rthspaz07[5k]: yea gives black huge influence

[18:34] LesTrois[22k]: because black can run with white

[18:34] rthspaz07[5k]: black doesnt get as much u think

[18:35] LesTrois[22k]: oh

[18:35] rthspaz07[5k]: here is josekis

Move 0 + 7

[18:35] rthspaz07[5k]: make sure not to A as black

[18:35] rthspaz07[5k]: bad result if so

Move 0 + 13

[18:35] rthspaz07[5k]: ok

[18:35] rthspaz07[5k]: after this white has aji at A

[18:36] rthspaz07[5k]: and be careful with black b

[18:36] rthspaz07[5k]: usually later white chooses to B

[18:36] rthspaz07[5k]: if not

Move 0 + 15

[18:36] rthspaz07[5k]: must o18

Move 0 + 23

[18:37] rthspaz07[5k]: bad result for white

Move 0 + 16

[18:37] RevarIsavé[13k]: That hurts

Move 0 + 14

[18:37] rthspaz07[5k]: yea

Move 0 + 7

[18:37] rthspaz07[5k]: what about here

[18:37] rthspaz07[5k]: who knows?

[18:37] rthspaz07[5k]: what is whites move to punish?

[18:38] RevarIsavé[13k]: s16

[18:38] rthspaz07[5k]: hint it will feel strange

[18:38] rthspaz07[5k]: nah not s16

[18:38] RevarIsavé[13k]: Then no idea

[18:38] rthspaz07[5k]: anyone?

[18:38] RevarIsavé[13k]: So far I only went over the most common joseki

[18:39] rthspaz07[5k]: ok

Move 0 + 8

[18:39] rthspaz07[5k]: this is answer

[18:39] rthspaz07[5k]: threatens to connect

Move 0 + 10

[18:39] rthspaz07[5k]: or

Move 0 + 9

[18:39] rthspaz07[5k]: here more common

[18:39] rthspaz07[5k]: then the brutal cut

Move 0 + 10

[18:39] rthspaz07[5k]: white now will kill something

[18:40] rthspaz07[5k]: A or B

[18:40] RevarIsavé[13k]: Oooh, I like that

Move 0 + 14

[18:40] rthspaz07[5k]: big

Move 0 + 14

[18:40] rthspaz07[5k]: dead

Move 0 + 7

[18:40] rthspaz07[5k]: so here

Move 0 + 4

[18:41] rthspaz07[5k]: other response black can do is this

Move 0 + 9

[18:41] rthspaz07[5k]: influence

Move 0 + 4

[18:41] rthspaz07[5k]: ok next is here

Move 0 + 5

[18:41] rthspaz07[5k]: since white was being attack he extends to get strong and then attacks black weak stonne

Move 0 + 6

[18:42] rthspaz07[5k]: here

Move 0 + 13

[18:42] rthspaz07[5k]: white can A or B

[18:42] rthspaz07[5k]: but if you actually look at what black as

[18:42] rthspaz07[5k]: has it is not much and can both be attacked

[18:42] rthspaz07[5k]: and white has influence

[18:42] rthspaz07[5k]: white can also C

[18:43] rthspaz07[5k]: and B does the same as the last joseki

[18:43] RevarIsavé[13k]: But that gets more complicated because of o16

[18:43] rthspaz07[5k]: where you can D

[18:43] rthspaz07[5k]: yea and no

[18:43] rthspaz07[5k]: if black o16 instead then top gets weaker or more weak points

Move 0 + 4

[18:44] RevarIsavé[13k]: Wait nvm

[18:44] RevarIsavé[13k]: I meant the black stone that was there

[18:44] RevarIsavé[13k]: wrong coordinate, sorry

[18:44] rthspaz07[5k]: :P

[18:44] RevarIsavé[13k]: shhh

[18:44] rthspaz07[5k]: but this is common

[18:44] rthspaz07[5k]: but the lest common and hard to understand at the pincers with 3-4 joseki

Move 0

[18:44] RevarIsavé[13k]: Then p14 oder r17 is a question of preference again

Move 0 + 1

[18:44] RevarIsavé[13k]: wha... oder = or

Move 0 + 6

[18:45] RevarIsavé[13k]: the german in me got out for a second, sorry

Move 0 + 13

[18:45] rthspaz07[5k]: k now you said p14 and r17

[18:45] rthspaz07[5k]: yea if you dont p14 then black can clamp

Move 0 + 15

[18:45] RevarIsavé[13k]: I mean at the start^^

Move 0 + 17

[18:45] RevarIsavé[13k]: thr 4th move

Move 0 + 5

[18:46] rthspaz07[5k]: here

[18:46] RevarIsavé[13k]: No, 2 moves back

[18:46] rthspaz07[5k]: well you can o16

Move 0 + 5

[18:46] rthspaz07[5k]: here?

[18:46] RevarIsavé[13k]: 2 moves back..

Move 0 + 8

[18:47] RevarIsavé[13k]: Just

[18:47] RevarIsavé[13k]: Go to

[18:47] RevarIsavé[13k]: When black played the pincer

[18:47] rthspaz07[5k]: which stone was last

Move 0 + 3

[18:47] RevarIsavé[13k]: Yeah

[18:47] rthspaz07[5k]: here

[18:47] RevarIsavé[13k]: All was saying was: Playing A or B here is a question of preference

[18:47] RevarIsavé[13k]: That was all

[18:47] rthspaz07[5k]: yea

[18:47] rthspaz07[5k]: and you dont have to respond

[18:48] rthspaz07[5k]: hard for white to get nothing even after play again

Move 0 + 12

[18:48] rthspaz07[5k]: hard to kill but black does gain

Move 0 + 4

[18:48] rthspaz07[5k]: another white move that gets complicated is double approach

Move 0 + 4

[18:48] rthspaz07[5k]: like this

[18:49] rthspaz07[5k]: ill show basic and move on

Move 0 + 10

[18:49] rthspaz07[5k]: there are variations

[18:49] rthspaz07[5k]: dont know most of them though

Move 0 + 1

[18:49] rthspaz07[5k]: ok now the 3-4 pincers

Move 0 + 2

[18:49] rthspaz07[5k]: low and high

Move 0 + 4

[18:50] rthspaz07[5k]: though behind them the same

[18:50] rthspaz07[5k]: prevent white base and gain from him running

[18:50] rthspaz07[5k]: but white response is similar

[18:50] rthspaz07[5k]: get stronger and attack the weak stone

Move 0 + 6

[18:51] rthspaz07[5k]: similar to the 4-4 pincer

Move 0 + 16

[18:51] rthspaz07[5k]: press the low pincers

[18:51] rthspaz07[5k]: and counter pincer the high ones

Move 0 + 6

[18:52] rthspaz07[5k]: can connect both

Move 0 + 8

[18:52] rthspaz07[5k]: basic

Move 0 + 2

[18:52] rthspaz07[5k]: many variations

[18:53] rthspaz07[5k]: but concept is get stronger then attack weak stone

Move 0 + 6

[18:53] rthspaz07[5k]: like this for exampel

[18:53] rthspaz07[5k]: is this joseki i have no idea but still attack weak one

Move 0 + 6

[18:53] rthspaz07[5k]: ok time for questions

[18:54] RevarIsavé[13k]: I think the one I had earlier got settled

[18:54] rthspaz07[5k]: k

[18:54] rthspaz07[5k]: awesome

[18:54] rthspaz07[5k]: this is my first lecture hopefully i did well enough for many to learn from it

[18:54] RevarIsavé[13k]: It was quite some input

[18:55] RevarIsavé[13k]: But

[18:55] rthspaz07[5k]: but most important thing is reading

[18:55] rthspaz07[5k]: if you have questions on a joseki move get a game reviewed for that

[18:55] rthspaz07[5k]: and get moves explained

[18:55] RevarIsavé[13k]: With some things being sort of fresh right now I can already say I learned something. And I'll go over this again :)

[18:56] RevarIsavé[13k]: And thank you a lot for all the effort you put into it

[18:56] rthspaz07[5k]: i would not touch joseki until getting closer to the 4-6k range

[18:56] rthspaz07[5k]: k thx for attending

[18:56] RevarIsavé[13k]: I would say covering the corners touched that, didn't it? ;)

[18:57] rthspaz07[5k]: i am usually around if anyone has questions link game and ask and ill get to it when i can

[18:57] rthspaz07[5k]: yea

[18:57] besanit[14k]: thanks

[18:57] rthspaz07[5k]: try what you learned and get reviews

[18:57] RevarIsavé[13k]: Yes, thank you again

[18:57] rthspaz07[5k]: yep well i have to get going

[18:57] rthspaz07[5k]: later

[18:57] RevarIsavé[13k]: I didn't expect things to become this big when I asked you :D

[18:58] RevarIsavé[13k]: Bye bye

[18:58] rthspaz07[5k]: yea it is all good we will go over thnkgs one on one

Move 0 + 1

November 8, 2015

[2:55] JackLS[24k]: is this live?

September 2, 2016

[13:27] cadburie7[20k]: Variation: d1

Move 1

July 4, 2019

[16:52] bethestone[1d]: hi

Move 5

February 23, 2020

[9:57] sukonbu[2d]: Variation: 2

[9:58] sukonbu[2d]: that was a miss click

Move 1

March 27, 2021

[2:35] bluebegginer[17k]: are we all doing this fuseki review?

[2:35] bluebegginer[17k]: oh wait, the last comment as last month

[2:35] bluebegginer[17k]: nevermind

[2:35] bluebegginer[17k]: hello

July 1, 2022

[10:57] margauxelisha28[13k]: hello

March 3, 2024

[21:22] fcabc[12k]: Variation: 1a