Move 132
0 captures
0 captures
+ 6.5
Unranked
Rules: Japanese
White wins by Timeout
Move 4
December 24, 2015
[6:05] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Grats on 20k btw
[6:05] JackLS[20k]: Thank you.
[6:06] JackLS[20k]: I learned the chinese openeing earlier.
[6:06] JackLS[20k]: Now I am trying to remember it. lol
[6:06] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: UH well
[6:06] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: It's not gonna happen here.
[6:07] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: R16 needs to be at Q17
[6:07] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: You can do Micro/Mini Chinese or Orhtodox
[6:07] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Or appraoch
[6:07] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Or something.
[6:07] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: But
[6:07] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: You can't really do mico or mini chinese
Move 5
[6:07] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: becasue D17
Move 6
[6:08] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Send me a song you really like.
[6:08] JackLS[20k]: send you a song?
[6:08] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Sur
[6:08] JackLS[20k]: How do I do that?
[6:09] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Go to youtube, search for a song, copy and paste the URL here.
[6:09] JackLS[20k]: I see what you mean about messing up the opening
[6:09] JackLS[20k]: sheesh
[6:10] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: It's ok
[6:10] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: maybe this is good.
Move 7
[6:12] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Yup
[6:12] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: I would paly that move too.
Move 8
[6:13] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Make sure you tell me your thoughts and stuff
[6:13] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: I can help guide you.
Move 10
[6:13] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Not so sure about that
[6:13] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Now with L17, I get the ideal extension.
[6:14] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: I would kick if i had played M17 and not L17
[6:14] JackLS[20k]: I am trying to follow the joseki for your approuch
[6:14] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Right, but
[6:15] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Try not to becoem overconcentrated too.
[6:15] JackLS[20k]: I was hoping to make a wall facing the upper left corner while helping to make a moyo in my right side.
[6:16] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Sure, but remember it's the opening
[6:16] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: The opening is about potential, not teritory.
[6:17] JackLS[20k]: I chose the rong joseki then
[6:17] JackLS[20k]: wrong
[6:17] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: It's not bad
[6:17] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Just go play somewhere else, like F3
[6:17] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Another move on the right side would be rong.
[6:17] JackLS[20k]: because I feel like the upper right corner is getting overconcentrated
[6:17] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: It is
[6:18] JackLS[20k]: I think I am supposed to play Q13
[6:18] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Alright
[6:19] JackLS[20k]: But, maybe I should tenuki and try approaching at D15
[6:20] JackLS[20k]: the space between white 4-4 and 3-4 is the biggest area now
[6:20] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Approaching top left is fine.
[6:20] JackLS[20k]: that is what I am thinking
[6:20] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: I would not say it was wrong.
[6:20] JackLS[20k]: Is my thinking wrong?
[6:21] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: [23:20] Kaworu Nagisa [9k]: Approaching top left is fine.
[6:21] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: [23:20] Kaworu Nagisa [9k]: I would not say it was wrong.
[6:21] JackLS[20k]: maybe the bottom has the biggest area for development
[6:21] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Probably the biggest move on the board is top left.
[6:22] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Don;t overthink
[6:22] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Just play the move you want to play
[6:23] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: If you spnd so much effort in the opning, you'll be drained when you actually need to think.
[6:23] JackLS[20k]: ok
Move 12
[6:25] JackLS[20k]: Isn't the opeing a very important part of the game?
[6:25] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Yes but
[6:25] JackLS[20k]: I thought it set up the midgame
[6:25] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: It's not worth spending so much effort on worrying and things
[6:25] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: The endgame can change the game by 30 points.
[6:25] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Who knows
[6:25] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: The midgame is by far the most important though.
[6:25] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: I woudl save my strength for that
[6:25] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: ANd jsut paly commonly in the openming.
Move 18
[6:28] JackLS[20k]: that ends the joseki
[6:29] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: That was joseki?
[6:29] JackLS[20k]: But, when you stay in this area, now I have to figure out how to do multi purpose moves when you are putting pressure on me
[6:29] JackLS[20k]: Am I not just defending now
[6:30] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: But you got split apart.
[6:30] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Now you have to defend 2 weak groups.
[6:30] JackLS[20k]: I thought I was following the common move of the joseki
[6:31] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Joseki are only joseki in a local constext
[6:31] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: They aren't joseki in a global context.
[6:31] JackLS[20k]: I think I play D6. to try and get a base. But yoou will prevent my vertical move after D6
[6:32] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: There's a reason behind the moves in a josek
[6:32] JackLS[20k]: So, F10 helps your global game?
[6:32] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: iIf you dont know the reason, then the joskei wont be joseki if you jsut play it out
[6:32] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Oh yeah
[6:32] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: You have two weak groups
[6:32] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: I get to attack them for profit now
[6:33] JackLS[20k]: I do not know how to stop my bleeding and help myself now
[6:34] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Play the joseki mvoes
[6:34] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: I would play C6 instead of D6 though
[6:34] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: you need some sort of base there.
[6:34] JackLS[20k]: May I ask why?
[6:35] JackLS[20k]: So global play is out until I can settle this area
[6:35] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: You need a base
[6:35] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Staggering stones helps with that.
Move 20
[6:37] JackLS[20k]: D7 now?
[6:37] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Standard mvoe to a kick
Move 22
[6:38] JackLS[20k]: now I play F6
[6:39] JackLS[20k]: trying to get a route to the center or is my group still too weak?
[6:39] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: route to centre
[6:39] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: never get sealed in unless yuo have to be'
[6:39] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: only a sealed in group cna be killed
Move 24
[6:40] JackLS[20k]: I need to stop your wonderful wall that is leading to my bottom stone. Every move I make now will weaken my bottom stone position
[6:42] JackLS[20k]: I also need to keep my left bottom group from being sealed in
[6:42] JackLS[20k]: I need a move that can do both
[6:43] JackLS[20k]: Is my thinking correct?
[6:43] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: wwhat kind of mvoe do you want
[6:43] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: i dont really understand
[6:44] JackLS[20k]: I want a move to strengthen both my bottom left group and my bottom right corner
[6:44] JackLS[20k]: because your group on the bottom seems to be getting very strong
[6:44] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: there isnt really one yet
[6:45] JackLS[20k]: So, then I need to make another 1 space jump?
[6:45] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: yeah
Move 26
[6:46] JackLS[20k]: I need to connect at G6
[6:47] JackLS[20k]: Is that right thinking?
[6:47] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: yup
[6:47] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: only move
Move 28
[6:47] JackLS[20k]: You are awesome lol
[6:47] JackLS[20k]: You are now attacking my upper group
[6:48] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: It's a splitting attack.
[6:48] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: i did arn you lol
[6:49] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: thats what it means to make dual purpose mvoes
[6:49] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: G7 pressures yoy and makes you heavy, and gives me some shape
[6:49] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Combined with H19, which gets me out further and pressures your upper goup, it helps mek eyespace
[6:50] JackLS[20k]: I nned a multi purpose move now. a move that both leads my group out and also pus some pressure on you group
[6:50] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: i was in your position quite a bit when i first started palying on tygem
[6:52] JackLS[20k]: would H12 be a good move?
[6:52] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Sure
[6:52] JackLS[20k]: I also need to get out and fin some space for some eyes
[6:52] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: knights moves can be cut too though
[6:52] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: so jsut as long as youre awayre of that and can fix
[6:54] JackLS[20k]: I do not know how to fix it.
[6:54] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Then just do a one space jump
[6:54] JackLS[20k]: that is why most of my play is slow
[6:55] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: As a 21k, youre doing fine
[6:55] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: About as good as a 17k
[6:55] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: er sorry!
[6:55] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: 20k*
[6:55] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: maybe even 16k
Move 30
[6:57] JackLS[20k]: I need to make a base for this upper left group. Maybe C17
[6:57] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: C17 is good
Move 32
[6:59] JackLS[20k]: Now would D16 force you to fix your weakness?
[7:00] JackLS[20k]: Or maybe just connect at C16
[7:00] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Fix your oppoent to fix yourself
[7:00] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Either is ok
Move 34
[7:05] JackLS[20k]: I think your next move will be B16
[7:05] JackLS[20k]: But, I could be wrong
[7:05] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: You're next to play lol
[7:05] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: I wouldnty play B16
[7:06] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Or even B17 if you tenuki
[7:06] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Well
[7:06] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: maybe I would
[7:06] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Becuase I expect you to play B17 to make eyeshape.
[7:07] JackLS[20k]: That is what Iwant to play
[7:07] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: That was kinda the point if you even playing in there.
[7:07] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: So then paly it.
[7:07] JackLS[20k]: But, I am always being punished for thinking that way
Move 35
[7:08] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: So play B17
Move 36
[7:09] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: This isn't punishment
[7:09] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: It's jsut "im gonna gain soem eyespace by taking a bit if yours away.
[7:11] JackLS[20k]: Is C13 a good move?
[7:13] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: I would play B14 in response
Move 38
[7:14] JackLS[20k]: I am thinking D14
[7:14] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: They were miai.
[7:14] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Yeah
[7:14] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: D14 is fine
Move 40
[7:15] JackLS[20k]: would C9 be a good move?
[7:16] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: I would play B8, again.
[7:16] JackLS[20k]: maybe B8
[7:17] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Then I play C9
[7:17] JackLS[20k]: Are you tired of helping me?
[7:19] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: nope lol
[7:19] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: why would i be
[7:20] JackLS[20k]: I am trying to figure out the best move. By the way, That song you sent was awesome!
[7:20] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: thats just a part of teaching
[7:20] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: dont worry lol
[7:20] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: and your moves ahvent been bad so far
[7:20] JackLS[20k]: I liked and am going to check out more of her music
[7:20] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: considering what youve had to deal with, youre playing like a 13k
[7:20] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: like
[7:21] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: i havent had much to complain about since you made the wrong chocei of hjkoseki
[7:21] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: the last 20 moves on the board ahve been fine
[7:21] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: i wouldnt paly much differently
[7:23] JackLS[20k]: I think C6 you would answer at B10
[7:23] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Hm?
[7:24] JackLS[20k]: I didn't even notice I am still listening to Lucy lol
[7:24] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: lol
[7:24] JackLS[20k]: Bikes is playing now lol
[7:25] JackLS[20k]: I need to develope eye space for the lower group too
[7:25] JackLS[20k]: maybe B8
[7:25] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Do you want to know a really really really cool move?
[7:25] JackLS[20k]: Am I thinking correctly?
[7:26] JackLS[20k]: absolutely
[7:26] JackLS[20k]: 3-3-
Move 42
Move 44
Move 46
Move 48
Move 49
Move 51
[7:29] JackLS[20k]: Wow
[7:29] JackLS[20k]: Nice!
Move 52
[7:30] JackLS[20k]: Is the basic joseki I know a good choie for this situation?
[7:31] JackLS[20k]: it would help me develope the right side and guve you the bottom
[7:31] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Yeah
[7:31] JackLS[20k]: Q6 for me
[7:31] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: That would be fair.
Move 53
[7:31] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Q6 and I woudl probably doge into the corner.
[7:32] JackLS[20k]: I love artists that feature guitar D
Move 54
[7:33] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: agreed
[7:33] JackLS[20k]: You did not dodge into the corner
[7:33] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: yeah
[7:34] JackLS[20k]: Would N6 be a bad move?
[7:35] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Probably
[7:36] JackLS[20k]: I still need a multi purpose move.
[7:39] JackLS[20k]: I don't know what to do now
[7:40] JackLS[20k]: O5?
[7:41] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: i would still play Q2 before any centre move
[7:41] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Corners first remembner
Move 56
[7:43] JackLS[20k]: R6 to make a box
Move 58
[7:44] JackLS[20k]: O7 would lead out to centre and put a little pressure on you
[7:45] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: It could be too aggressive
[7:45] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: And the wrong direction
[7:45] JackLS[20k]: P11 might be better
[7:46] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Yup
[7:46] JackLS[20k]: My weakest group is the upper right now?
Move 60
[7:47] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Who said I was attacking the weakest group?
[7:47] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: There are other things you can do.
[7:47] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Reduce you and build me up at the same time.
[7:48] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Prevent black playing a should hit at M16
[7:48] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: etc
[7:49] JackLS[20k]: Q13
[7:49] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: prevetn shoudler hit isnt correct
[7:49] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: but
[7:49] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: minimize damage done by it
[7:50] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: P13 is better
Move 62
[7:51] JackLS[20k]: Q14
Move 65
[7:52] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: probably too over defensive
[7:52] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: but
[7:52] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: no aji there now
[7:52] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: so maybe its ok
Move 66
[7:52] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: you play slow, so ill play slow
[7:53] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: but i get more form my slwo move
[7:53] JackLS[20k]: I hate that I play slow
[7:53] JackLS[20k]: I really do
[7:53] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: its not that you play slow
[7:53] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: its that you overdefend
[7:53] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: huge huge huge difference
[7:53] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: [playing slow is probably the way to go given the board game state
[7:53] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: everyoen is too strogn to play crazy
[7:54] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: now its kinda almost endgame
[7:55] JackLS[20k]: Did I play badly?
[7:55] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Q13 isnt a bad move
[7:55] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: youre too hard on yourself
[7:56] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Q13 is hardly, hardly a mistake
[7:56] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: especially at 20k
[7:56] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: it would only be a mistake at like, 3k
[7:56] JackLS[20k]: Is aji good sometimes?
[7:56] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: for sure
[7:57] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: good for both, in a sense
[7:57] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: if you have aji, it means you arent overconcentrated and over defending
[7:57] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: but too much aji for you can be bad as well
[7:57] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: i think you had the right amount before Q13
[7:58] JackLS[20k]: Is N4 a good move?
[7:58] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: IN what sense
[7:58] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: What do you want to do with it
[7:59] JackLS[20k]: actually I thin O6 is better
[7:59] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Yeah
[7:59] JackLS[20k]: I am trying to keep hyour weak group weak
[8:00] JackLS[20k]: and also get out to the centre
[8:00] JackLS[20k]: I was thinking multi purpose lol
Move 68
[8:02] JackLS[20k]: L6?
[8:02] JackLS[20k]: is that too thin?
[8:02] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: probably not
[8:02] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: im not gonna attack 2 living group lol
[8:03] JackLS[20k]: maybe L8 is better
[8:03] JackLS[20k]: Is that too aggresive again?
[8:04] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: yeah
Move 70
[8:05] JackLS[20k]: I am thinking M12 now
[8:05] JackLS[20k]: Is that a bad move?
[8:05] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: i dunno
[8:06] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: deoends on if we fight or not
[8:06] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: but you can expect a fight
[8:06] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: might be best to avoid fights considering the difference in rank
[8:06] JackLS[20k]: fighting with you would be painful lol
[8:06] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: dunno
[8:08] JackLS[20k]: I am not really into fighting lol I just want to connect and maybe gain a little more teritory
[8:08] JackLS[20k]: while limiting yours
[8:08] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: tthats a fifhting move though
[8:08] JackLS[20k]: I was actually just trying to connect with the upper left group
[8:08] JackLS[20k]: I wasn't thinking about fighting when I thought of it
[8:09] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: LEts fight
[8:09] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Play it and we'll see
Move 72
[8:10] JackLS[20k]: J11?
[8:11] JackLS[20k]: Is that good shape?
[8:11] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: uhhhh
[8:11] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: why J11
[8:12] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Go for it
[8:12] JackLS[20k]: You are right. It doesn't help me. K13?
[8:12] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: K13 is ok
Move 74
[8:13] JackLS[20k]: L12 to split you
[8:13] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: i agree
Move 76
[8:14] JackLS[20k]: J13
[8:14] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Sure
Move 78
[8:15] JackLS[20k]: N12
[8:16] JackLS[20k]: N11
[8:16] JackLS[20k]: N11 I think would be better
[8:16] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: either or
Move 80
[8:19] JackLS[20k]: E9
Move 82
[8:21] JackLS[20k]: I really hate fighting
[8:22] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: so then dont lol
[8:22] JackLS[20k]: you attacked my home
[8:22] JackLS[20k]: I am not ok with that lol
[8:22] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: lol
[8:23] JackLS[20k]: You are taking my corner and I can't fight back
Move 86
[8:26] JackLS[20k]: Is O4 ok?
Move 88
[8:27] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Small gote
Move 102
[8:35] JackLS[20k]: I am making nothing but mistakes now
[8:35] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: trying too hard
Move 106
[8:37] JackLS[20k]: You have a lot more points than me
[8:37] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: not that many
[8:37] JackLS[20k]: I am trying to reduce and doing it very poorly
Move 111
[8:39] JackLS[20k]: I wonder if I will find the spot between too defensive and too aggresive.
[8:40] JackLS[20k]: where I just make good moves
Move 112
[8:40] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: that would be sente mvoes
Move 113
[8:40] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: that was good for an emdgame move
Move 116
[8:41] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: that was a "thank you" move
[8:41] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: now im all connected up
[8:41] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: you didnt cain much
Move 122
[8:44] JackLS[20k]: Can you help me find my way right now?
[8:45] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: A13, P2, M4
[8:45] JackLS[20k]: I don't know where to go
[8:45] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: M4 is sente
[8:45] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: Just play endgame
[8:45] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: P1 is sente
Move 126
[8:46] JackLS[20k]: I don't have much experence in endgame play
[8:46] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: thats ok
[8:46] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: i didnt get it until like, 11k
Move 132
[8:48] JackLS[20k]: If I play B16 you can takke C14
[8:48] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: So C14 is gote
[8:48] JackLS[20k]: and if I take C14 you can take B16 lol
[8:48] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: why would i play B16...
[8:49] JackLS[20k]: wouldn't take kill my chance for eyes?
[8:49] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: what about all the stuff around F13?
[8:50] JackLS[20k]: I want to scream
[8:50] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: well its jsut small endgame now
[8:50] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: and i won by 30 ish points
[8:50] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: all things considered, i beat up 6k's on tygem by 40 to 100 points
[8:50] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: i beat a 9k on here by liek 55 points
[8:51] JackLS[20k]: Can we fork this game?
[8:51] JackLS[20k]: please
[8:51] JackLS[20k]: I want to learn endgame
[8:52] JackLS[20k]: If you are tired, we can stop
[8:52] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: i sent a chellenge lol
[8:52] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: check top right
[8:52] Kaworu Nagisa[9k]: if you want to learn endgame, i can just show you on a demo board

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