Game Finished

Move 104

walken![18k]

1 capture

④

Flopsy[5k]

21 captures

+ 0.5

Unranked

Rules: Japanese

Review by: ...

Move 104

January 15, 2018

[9:15] Flopsy[4d]: whee!

[9:16] Flopsy[4d]: alright

[9:17] walken![9k]: right

[9:17] Flopsy[4d]: yeah, A and B are miai against n6 potential eye

[9:17] walken![9k]: I see it now

[9:17] Flopsy[4d]: and C and D are miai to limit black to just one eye

Move 7

[9:18] Flopsy[4d]: first situation, right?

[9:18] walken![9k]: yes

[9:18] Flopsy[4d]: where white is trying to play a stone that isn't well connected

[9:18] Flopsy[4d]: this relationship is weak

[9:18] walken![9k]: so, j5 ?

[9:18] Flopsy[4d]: right

Move 7 + 2

[9:18] walken![9k]: makes sense

[9:18] Flopsy[4d]: walk out with your own group

[9:18] Flopsy[4d]: and split whtie

Move 7 + 5

[9:19] Flopsy[4d]: the white stones are at odds

Move 7 + 1

[9:19] walken![9k]: my though at the time was push you against my closest stone

Move 7 + 5

[9:19] Flopsy[4d]: push against black to help one side

[9:19] Flopsy[4d]: and the other gets harmes

Move 7 + 1

[9:19] walken![9k]: but yeah, that didn't make much sense.

Move 10

[9:19] Flopsy[4d]: white didn't connect right away

[9:20] Flopsy[4d]: but was trying for more profit

Move 14

[9:20] Flopsy[4d]: this was not so good

Move 15

[9:20] Flopsy[4d]: peeping just asks white to fix the cutting point

[9:20] Flopsy[4d]: and the second line stone at j2 is not so useful

[9:21] Flopsy[4d]: in fact, it's so close to the edge that it's likely to be swallowed anyway

Move 13 + 1

[9:21] Flopsy[4d]: I was concerned about stuff like this

[9:21] Flopsy[4d]: double hane

[9:21] Flopsy[4d]: a sort of natural flow from the hane at the head of two stones

[9:22] Flopsy[4d]: which black already had

[9:22] Flopsy[4d]: now, black has cutting points

[9:22] walken![9k]: yes

[9:22] Flopsy[4d]: but white's j3 cut is very severe

[9:22] Flopsy[4d]: since the two stones have very few liberties

[9:22] Flopsy[4d]: and are right against black's wall

Move 13 + 4

[9:23] Flopsy[4d]: making it hard to play atari forcefully

Move 13 + 5

[9:23] Flopsy[4d]: you should usually extend once from this atari

[9:23] Flopsy[4d]: to make more liberties

[9:23] Flopsy[4d]: even if the stones are fated to be captured

[9:23] Flopsy[4d]: black will get more forcing moves from them

[9:23] walken![9k]: right. and then probably 7 at j3

Move 13 + 6

[9:24] Flopsy[4d]: well, say white tries to capture

Move 13 + 9

[9:24] Flopsy[4d]: then the other side will definitely drop

[9:24] Flopsy[4d]: white will lose the two stones

Move 13 + 13

[9:24] Flopsy[4d]: it might be even worse, like this

[9:25] Flopsy[4d]: black is sealing white in entirely

[9:25] Flopsy[4d]: and playing a somewhat less secure shape in the effort to swallow the 2 white stones on a bigger scale

Move 13 + 15

[9:26] Flopsy[4d]: white is in hane on both ends of 2 stones

[9:26] Flopsy[4d]: very very difficult shape

[9:26] Flopsy[4d]: particularly with black supporting stones

Move 13 + 16

[9:26] Flopsy[4d]: evades immediate capture

[9:26] Flopsy[4d]: but white can't capture black immediately either

[9:27] Flopsy[4d]: it would be a somewhat long fight

Move 13 + 13

[9:27] Flopsy[4d]: and often simpler is better

Move 13 + 2

[9:27] Flopsy[4d]: in any case, white may have to draw back

Move 13 + 3

[9:27] Flopsy[4d]: and now the splitting works effective

[9:28] walken![9k]: right

[9:28] Flopsy[4d]: white has to worry about living in two places at once, now

[9:28] Flopsy[4d]: how do you feel about this k5 cutting point?

[9:28] elx[5k]: Ladder here doesn't work

[9:28] walken![9k]: yes

[9:28] Flopsy[4d]: sure, no ladder

[9:29] elx[5k]: So should black cover it?

[9:29] Flopsy[4d]: either one of you want to show the best variation for black, if white cuts now?

Move 13 + 11

[9:29] walken![9k]: do I have it ?

[9:30] Flopsy[4d]: yes, good

[9:30] Flopsy[4d]: just drive them to the edge

[9:30] walken![9k]: makes sense

[9:30] Flopsy[4d]: stones with 2 liberties on the 2nd line are dead, pretty much

[9:30] Flopsy[4d]: it's the line of defeaat

[9:30] walken![9k]: but hard for me to read before doing the double hane

Move 13 + 10

[9:30] walken![9k]: which I think is what I should be doing ?

Move 13 + 1

[9:31] Flopsy[4d]: even if you played some gentler shape

[9:31] Flopsy[4d]: to make sure that you could handle the cutting point

[9:31] walken![9k]: right

[9:31] Flopsy[4d]: note that the splitting is still quite effective

[9:31] walken![9k]: so priority is avoid connection

[9:31] Flopsy[4d]: and black can look forward to cutting white later

[9:32] walken![9k]: I was worried about giving too much space to white for it to make eyes without connecting

[9:32] Flopsy[4d]: you'll win the war even if white gets some territory

[9:32] Flopsy[4d]: don't need to kill everything

[9:32] elx[5k]: j3 cut works because ladder favors black

[9:32] walken![9k]: right

Move 13 + 5

[9:32] Flopsy[4d]: yes, j3 cut is annoying

Move 13 + 7

[9:33] Flopsy[4d]: pain for white

Move 13 + 7

[9:33] Flopsy[4d]: also, pain

[9:33] walken![9k]: let white make territiories but make it fight for each, rather than connecting all its stones together

Move 13 + 16

[9:33] Flopsy[4d]: now it is capturing race

[9:33] Flopsy[4d]: what's the liberty situation?

[9:34] Flopsy[4d]: White A group has 4, right?

[9:34] elx[5k]: White can extend to H1

[9:34] Flopsy[4d]: black B group has 5

[9:34] Flopsy[4d]: and, it's black's move

[9:35] Flopsy[4d]: this is looking favorable for black

[9:35] elx[5k]: I think it favors black

[9:35] elx[5k]: but perhaps there's some trick for white

Move 13 + 23

[9:35] Flopsy[4d]: white may be able to squeeze out

[9:35] Flopsy[4d]: but black has miai

[9:35] Flopsy[4d]: the corner won't die

Move 13 + 24

[9:36] Flopsy[4d]: if white tries moving out

Move 13 + 25

[9:36] Flopsy[4d]: black connects under

Move 13 + 29

[9:36] wingZ[3d]: Variation: 1

Move 13 + 25

[9:36] Flopsy[4d]: and in this case white made a mistake, too

Move 13 + 29

[9:36] wingZ[3d]: no

[9:36] wingZ[3d]: black ladder

[9:36] wingZ[3d]: what are you teaching mate

Move 13 + 25

[9:36] Flopsy[4d]: and white could just die like this

Move 13 + 25

[9:37] Flopsy[4d]: and yeah

[9:37] Flopsy[4d]: even here

[9:37] Flopsy[4d]: it's grim

Move 13 + 33

[9:37] wingZ[3d]: Variation: 2

[9:37] wingZ[3d]: no escape there

Move 13 + 25

[9:37] Flopsy[4d]: the liberties are just too tight

Move 20

[9:37] Flopsy[4d]: at this point it felt like black was trying to save the stones

[9:38] elx[5k]: Which would not work

[9:38] Flopsy[4d]: but it's going to be hard, with white being able to poke in at will

[9:38] Flopsy[4d]: and eliminate eyeshape

[9:38] Flopsy[4d]: hard to get out of white's enclosure by walking around on the second line

Move 19 + 1

[9:39] Flopsy[4d]: better to let them be for now

[9:39] elx[5k]: It's better to abandon lost fights and look for opportunities elsewhere

[9:39] walken![9k]: black kept being worried about white making eyes rather than about white connecting.

[9:39] Flopsy[4d]: right

[9:39] Flopsy[4d]: black was increasing the size of the loss on the right

Move 33

[9:39] walken![9k]: yes

[9:39] elx[5k]: Also those ongoing fights create opportunites for ko

[9:39] Flopsy[4d]: white is still ahead of black

[9:40] Flopsy[4d]: and black is no more alive

[9:40] Flopsy[4d]: than before

[9:40] Flopsy[4d]: also, white got sente

[9:40] Flopsy[4d]: so, really sequence for black

Move 13 + 33

[9:40] wingZ[3d]: everything

[9:40] wingZ[3d]: falls down to the basic shape

[9:41] wingZ[3d]: he need to recognize the vital point

Move 34

[9:41] Flopsy[4d]: extreme basic shape analysis would say this is a shoulder hit on white

[9:41] Flopsy[4d]: meaning, a solid attachment is most normal

Move 34 + 1

[9:41] Flopsy[4d]: but that doesn't make eyespace quick enough

Move 34 + 2

[9:42] wingZ[3d]: you can

[9:42] wingZ[3d]: but not severe

[9:42] Flopsy[4d]: and also allows black to make good shape in response

[9:42] wingZ[3d]: B10

[9:42] wingZ[3d]: fast eye space and enough to live

[9:42] Flopsy[4d]: this tiger mouth is also hane at the head of two stones

[9:42] wingZ[3d]: with aji at C4

Move 33

[9:42] wingZ[3d]: C3

[9:42] wingZ[3d]: i mean

Move 35

[9:42] wingZ[3d]: miai to G2 or that attachment

[9:43] Flopsy[4d]: in the game, white used the knight's move

[9:43] Flopsy[4d]: slightly faster, but it's easy to read that it can't be cut

Move 35 + 4

[9:43] Flopsy[4d]: black is basically just giving white even better shape by trying to cut directly like this

[9:43] Flopsy[4d]: the cutting stone dies immediately

[9:43] wingZ[3d]: it is appropriate move in this situation perhaps

Move 35 + 9

[9:44] wingZ[3d]: Variation: 3

[9:44] wingZ[3d]: some aji if the black is strong in middle

[9:44] Flopsy[4d]: sometimes you might se that attempt at fighting, but it's tough

Move 36

[9:44] Flopsy[4d]: game move wasn't so bad

[9:45] Flopsy[4d]: definite relation

Move 35 + 2

[9:45] wingZ[3d]: it isokay but

[9:45] Flopsy[4d]: you might also try it here, when playing form that direction

[9:45] walken![9k]: I hesitated with that one too

[9:45] wingZ[3d]: strengthening the weak group is priority rite?

Move 35 + 5

[9:45] Flopsy[4d]: can limit white's eyespace on the top

[9:46] wingZ[3d]: yes white live with 3-3 invasion

[9:46] Flopsy[4d]: by peeping that connection, where you probably had no chance to cut

Move 35 + 6

[9:46] Flopsy[4d]: but white can jump to 3-3

[9:46] wingZ[3d]: in sente too

[9:46] Flopsy[4d]: which was part o fthe meaning of the knight's move

Move 35

[9:46] Flopsy[4d]: that white played in the first place

[9:47] Flopsy[4d]: to get under black and see into eyespace in the corner

[9:47] Flopsy[4d]: in order to live, and make points

Move 39

[9:47] walken![9k]: was it better to answer c3 rather than b9 ?

Move 35 + 1

[9:48] Flopsy[4d]: it might be more forceful this way

Move 39

[9:48] elx[5k]: you mean C4?

Move 35 + 4

[9:48] Flopsy[4d]: this knight's move is weaker

Move 35 + 9

[9:48] Flopsy[4d]: white may get closed in to live real small

[9:49] Flopsy[4d]: black sacrificed the stone to get forcing moves

[9:49] Flopsy[4d]: now top left is looking like a black corner, maybe

[9:49] walken![9k]: right

Move 41

[9:50] Flopsy[4d]: white is sort of giving black territory

[9:50] Flopsy[4d]: just trying to play solidly, at this point

Move 43 + 1

[9:50] Flopsy[4d]: expected maybe this

Move 43 + 1

[9:50] Flopsy[4d]: or this, even better

Move 43 + 5

[9:51] Flopsy[4d]: black has few worries in taking the upper side

[9:51] Flopsy[4d]: only concern is this A group

Move 43 + 1

[9:51] elx[5k]: Black is rather high here

Move 43 + 6

[9:51] wingZ[3d]: Variation: 4

[9:52] Flopsy[4d]: yes, around there would be where white may try

[9:52] wingZ[3d]: and blak would suffer considerable damage

Move 43 + 5

[9:52] Flopsy[4d]: white is not going to lose if black just gets the top

Move 41

[9:52] Flopsy[4d]: part of why white was relaxed here

[9:53] Flopsy[4d]: was it didn't seem like there would be the need to do anything terrifyingly complex in order to win

Move 48

[9:53] wingZ[3d]: white aliready won

Move 51

[9:53] wingZ[3d]: at this point

[9:53] Flopsy[4d]: yeah

[9:53] walken![9k]: agree

[9:53] Flopsy[4d]: black saves center group

[9:53] Flopsy[4d]: but center territory is small

[9:54] Flopsy[4d]: on this size board

Move 52

[9:54] Flopsy[4d]: and top is getting reduced

Move 53

[9:54] Flopsy[4d]: then this cut

Move 53 + 5

[9:54] Flopsy[4d]: black can still save the top

[9:54] Flopsy[4d]: but white has enough to win

Move 54

[9:55] Flopsy[4d]: in the game, black tried to save everything

Move 55

[9:55] Flopsy[4d]: and that got rough

[9:55] Flopsy[4d]: this cut is hane at the head of two stones

[9:55] Flopsy[4d]: twice

[9:55] Flopsy[4d]: damaging on both sides

Move 56

[9:55] Flopsy[4d]: black's move is too slow

[9:55] elx[5k]: this extension is bad

Move 55 + 1

[9:56] elx[5k]: How about G8

[9:56] Flopsy[4d]: jumping is better, if you just want to move these center stones out

Move 57

[9:56] walken![9k]: at this point I couldn't decide on what to save

Move 55 + 6

[9:57] Flopsy[4d]: still probably save the top

Move 55 + 7

[9:57] Flopsy[4d]: that's where the big territory is

[9:57] Flopsy[4d]: black shoudl be able to handle these cutting points

[9:57] Flopsy[4d]: without any big death

Move 55 + 6

[9:57] elx[5k]: But white gets a lot of freedom with that shape

[9:58] elx[5k]: empty bubles are very hard to fight against when you just get straight lines

Move 55 + 7

[9:58] Flopsy[4d]: white has 100% life, pretty much

[9:58] Flopsy[4d]: after capturing the center stones

[9:59] Flopsy[4d]: but, is limited in the area where this strong group can exert influence

[9:59] Flopsy[4d]: if white can't break into the top by cutting

[9:59] Flopsy[4d]: the territorial impact of this group's influence won't be so great

Move 55 + 9

[9:59] elx[5k]: Can black save g5 to k4 line?

Move 55 + 13

[10:00] Flopsy[4d]: white can't really cut it off

Move 55 + 15

[10:00] Flopsy[4d]: no cutting point works here

Move 58

[10:01] elx[5k]: 8 can escape

[10:01] Flopsy[4d]: 8?

Move 55 + 9

[10:02] Flopsy[4d]: here?

[10:02] elx[5k]: g11

[10:02] elx[5k]: it has 8 on

[10:02] Flopsy[4d]: right

[10:02] Flopsy[4d]: black has covered this stone

[10:02] Flopsy[4d]: and confined it to the top

[10:02] Flopsy[4d]: how do you plan to make it escape?

Move 55 + 16

[10:03] elx[5k]: In this fork after 70 it can extend while 10 is caught in ladder

[10:03] Flopsy[4d]: you want to peep here?

Move 55 + 14

[10:04] elx[5k]: Then black just connects

Move 55 + 21

[10:04] Flopsy[4d]: yeah, I don't really think white is getting out of this

[10:04] elx[5k]: White can extend to up

[10:04] elx[5k]: And cut at f8

[10:05] elx[5k]: I mean try to make a semeai for black life

[10:05] Flopsy[4d]: f8 not a cutting point

[10:05] Flopsy[4d]: it won't work

Move 55 + 23

[10:05] elx[5k]: E8

Move 55 + 23

[10:05] Flopsy[4d]: white has nil for liberties

[10:05] Flopsy[4d]: and black will still connect

Move 55 + 27

[10:06] Flopsy[4d]: can't stop the capture of the cutting stone

[10:06] elx[5k]: Yeah this ladder favors black

Move 55 + 10

[10:06] elx[5k]: Actually is influence all about who ladders favor?

Move 55 + 9

[10:06] Flopsy[4d]: hah, no

Move 55 + 8

[10:07] Flopsy[4d]: but ladder breaking is one of the benefits of having stones on the outside

Move 57 + 1

[10:07] Flopsy[4d]: to save the corner, black has to protect the eyespace

[10:07] Flopsy[4d]: but, it's looking a little bit dicey even so

Move 59

[10:08] Flopsy[4d]: after white goes here, the corner is captured

[10:08] Flopsy[4d]: and white is far ahead

Move 104

[10:08] Flopsy[4d]: as you see, white got a little bit more on the top

[10:08] Flopsy[4d]: by connecting left and right sides

[10:08] elx[5k]: regarding position here

[10:09] elx[5k]: or at the end

[10:09] Flopsy[4d]: but basically the bulk of the score difference was decided by move 59

[10:09] walken![9k]: so I don't know why I didn't realize much earlier that the outside black group was dead dead dead

[10:09] Flopsy[4d]: yeah

[10:09] walken![9k]: for some reason I thought it could live

[10:09] Flopsy[4d]: not realizing that lost you a lot of points

[10:09] walken![9k]: yes

[10:10] Flopsy[4d]: so it's not just connection itself that you need to be thinking about

[10:10] Flopsy[4d]: but eyeshape too, at this point

[10:10] Flopsy[4d]: be on the lookout for false eyes

[10:11] Flopsy[4d]: too many places needed connection

[10:11] walken![9k]: right

[10:11] Flopsy[4d]: so, not enough eyeshape

[10:11] Flopsy[4d]: just two half eyes

[10:11] Flopsy[4d]: (that's a way of describing an eye that could be made in gote)

[10:12] walken![9k]: I can most often deal with such things in for example elx games, because we tend to play slower and the board is smaller

[10:12] walken![9k]: but I can't just glance at it and see it

[10:12] Flopsy[4d]: You had time here to think it out

[10:12] Flopsy[4d]: It's true that I pressed you to think a little faster

[10:13] Flopsy[4d]: because I think you should try

[10:13] walken![9k]: yes, I play quite slow in general

[10:13] Flopsy[4d]: but you could have sat for a minute to try to settle that issue

[10:13] walken![9k]: not sure how to get better at that

[10:13] Flopsy[4d]: given how important it was

[10:13] walken![9k]: I've been playing some bot games faster but I blunder a lot.

Move 104 + 4

[10:13] elx[5k]: Variation: What is answer for white?

Move 104 + 5

[10:13] elx[5k]: questio for walken

[10:13] Flopsy[4d]: Variation: this

[10:14] elx[5k]: No, I know that

[10:14] Flopsy[4d]: yeah, just saw

[10:14] elx[5k]: But if I was playing black I would have tried this

[10:14] Flopsy[4d]: my point is that you know some of the patterns

Move 95

[10:15] walken![9k]: elx, yes b3

Move 94

[10:16] elx[5k]: However a move like this won me one of recent games

[10:16] Flopsy[4d]: pressing yourself to get to the right answer at e10 here quickly

[10:16] Flopsy[4d]: for example

[10:16] elx[5k]: other player passed thinking it was harmless

[10:16] Flopsy[4d]: means that you'll have the good moves coming to the top of your mind more readily

[10:16] Flopsy[4d]: the game is about pattern recognition

[10:16] Flopsy[4d]: you can't brute force the reading, but have to build on a feel for patterns

[10:17] Flopsy[4d]: if the good patterns come to mind more readily

[10:17] Flopsy[4d]: it will be easier to put together longer sequences of probably-good moves

[10:17] Flopsy[4d]: and read more deeply

[10:17] Flopsy[4d]: your game will get better

[10:17] Flopsy[4d]: so do both

[10:17] Flopsy[4d]: don't just play on instinct

Move 96

[10:18] walken![9k]: right

Move 94

[10:18] Flopsy[4d]: but try not to overread it

Move 95

[10:18] elx[5k]: What's up with e10?

Move 96

[10:18] walken![9k]: elx, he meant if I didn't play there I'd lose more of the top

Move 93 + 2

[10:18] Flopsy[4d]: prevents this pain

Move 93 + 8

[10:19] Flopsy[4d]: pain

Move 93 + 7

[10:19] elx[5k]: You said good answer to it

Move 94

[10:19] Flopsy[4d]: right

[10:19] Flopsy[4d]: connecting is pretty much the best thing to do

[10:20] Flopsy[4d]: in any case the cutting point needs defense

[10:20] elx[5k]: Why does it need to be answered? Black just protects his own shape

[10:20] Flopsy[4d]: that's answering white

[10:20] Flopsy[4d]: it was white's move that needed an answer

[10:20] elx[5k]: Ah, right. Yes of cours H10 needs answering

[10:20] elx[5k]: There was a tsumego about it

[10:21] Flopsy[4d]: anyway, that's how I felt about this game, roughly

Move 104 + 5

[10:21] walken![9k]: thanks for the game

Move 94

[10:21] Flopsy[4d]: black clung too much to dead stones

[10:21] Flopsy[4d]: and made a few other shape mistakes

Move 104 + 5

[10:21] walken![9k]: yup :(

Move 94

[10:21] Flopsy[4d]: and didn't really split white effectively

[10:21] Flopsy[4d]: got a bit sidetracked from that goal

[10:21] Flopsy[4d]: so white won

Move 104 + 5

[10:22] walken![9k]: actually as you said before we even started

[10:22] elx[5k]: Flopsy: at least black made some living shapes

Move 94

[10:22] Flopsy[4d]: sure

Move 104 + 5

[10:22] walken![9k]: don't try to kill everything

Move 94

[10:22] Flopsy[4d]: white wasn't trying to kill everything

Move 104 + 5

[10:22] elx[5k]: on 9x9 I manage to kill all opponent shapes sometimes

Move 94

[10:22] Flopsy[4d]: didn't have to

Move 104 + 5

[10:22] walken![9k]: no, you told me, don't try to kill everything

Move 94

[10:23] Flopsy[4d]: right

Move 104 + 5

[10:23] elx[5k]: Yes, but if you manage to win by killing every single opponet stone it's cool isn't it?

Move 94

[10:23] Flopsy[4d]: in your case, it was more like you tried to live with everything

Move 104 + 5

[10:23] walken![9k]: but somehow.... :)

[10:23] walken![9k]: right

Move 94

[10:23] Flopsy[4d]: there were a few places where you'd be better off sacrificing stones

[10:23] Flopsy[4d]: and getting forcing moves in exchange

[10:24] Flopsy[4d]: either to split white in lower right

Move 104 + 5

[10:24] walken![9k]: that lower black group started because I wanted to prevent you making eye space and I kinda knew it'd be weak but somehow I clung to it

Move 94

[10:24] Flopsy[4d]: or to prevent white from getting the top

Move 104 + 5

[10:24] elx[5k]: Not every forcing move is good

Move 92

[10:24] Flopsy[4d]: every forcing move is a lost opportunity for other forcing moves

Move 14

[10:25] Flopsy[4d]: which was why this peep was bad

[10:25] Flopsy[4d]: because there was real potential to cut

[10:25] Flopsy[4d]: which was limiting white's options

[10:25] elx[5k]: J3 would be better

[10:25] Flopsy[4d]: yes, just cut directly, if you want to do something directly with the cutting point

Move 13 + 1

[10:26] Flopsy[4d]: or keep splitting

Move 13 + 1

[10:26] Flopsy[4d]: however you do it, it's your basic strategic goal

[10:26] Flopsy[4d]: split white

[10:26] Flopsy[4d]: even if you make kind of slack shape, splitting still creates worries on both sides

[10:26] Flopsy[4d]: about how to live

Move 16

[10:26] elx[5k]: though some moves like this are good for creating damedzumari

Move 13 + 1

[10:26] Flopsy[4d]: how to manage cutting points

[10:27] Flopsy[4d]: yes, often low moves are key in life and death

[10:27] walken![9k]: damedzumari ?

[10:27] Flopsy[4d]: but that's only after a group is pretty much entirely enclosed

[10:27] Flopsy[4d]: shortage of liberties, walken

[10:27] elx[5k]: it's what I was trying to do with your groups

[10:27] elx[5k]: That ladder and stuff

[10:27] elx[5k]: i was trying hard to recover from my bluders

[10:28] Flopsy[4d]: anyway, hope this was instructive

[10:28] walken![9k]: ah, yes

[10:28] Flopsy[4d]: I do think the correct way to learn from handicap games is to attack

[10:28] walken![9k]: it definitely was

[10:28] Flopsy[4d]: keep this large-scale splitting idea in mind

[10:28] elx[5k]: Not every splitting is good though

[10:29] Flopsy[4d]: well, it's important to split groups that aren't 100% alive, for example

[10:29] Flopsy[4d]: the idea is to pressure the groups that you split

[10:29] Flopsy[4d]: if they are so strong that they cannot be endangered, then it's not so effective

[10:29] Flopsy[4d]: but as white opens like this

[10:30] elx[5k]: Also splitting stones even if they are caught in ladders or stuff can help in future

[10:30] Flopsy[4d]: there will be plenty of groups trying to mke life

[10:30] Flopsy[4d]: alright, so, let's call that a review

[10:30] walken![9k]: thanks

[10:31] Flopsy[4d]: you're welcome

[10:31] walken![9k]: btw, do you two (elx & flopsy) know each other ?

[10:31] Flopsy[4d]: I only know elx as well as you

[10:31] walken![9k]: ok, I was just wondering

[10:31] Flopsy[4d]: just seen you playing and talking

[10:31] walken![9k]: :)

[10:31] Flopsy[4d]: so took a little time to try to help

[10:31] walken![9k]: well we definitely appreciate the help

[10:32] Flopsy[4d]: alright, good to hear

[10:32] Flopsy[4d]: then, keep practicing

Move 104 + 5

[10:33] elx[5k]: so what is your opinion about moves like this?

[10:33] walken![9k]: they are worth trying :)

[10:34] elx[5k]: not against stronger player

[10:34] walken![9k]: no strong opinion - if you know the move should not work, you may try something larger first, but if all the large stuff it gone, it's ok to try

[10:35] elx[5k]: This isn't just small it has zero value

[10:35] walken![9k]: at some point if the chance of it working is very low, maybe you don't try anymore not to bore your opponent, but you and I both blunder enough still that it's worty trying such things.

[10:35] elx[5k]: I blunder less :P

[10:35] walken![9k]: :)

[10:36] walken![9k]: well either way, I've enjoyed both our games

[10:36] walken![9k]: I have to go bed soon but I'll want to play with you more.

[10:36] walken![9k]: and I'm kicking myself for not closing the deal on this last game.

[10:37] elx[5k]: what deal?

[10:37] walken![9k]: I mean getting from a winning position to an actual win

Move 13 + 1

[10:38] elx[5k]: do you mean game vs me?

Move 104 + 5

[10:38] walken![9k]: yes

[10:38] walken![9k]: I was never in a winning position in this game. except maybe before playing the first move as I had the handicap :)